[tied] Re: Germanic Scythians?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > I better give my whole scenario:
> >
> > Germanic Stammbaum
> > bef. 200 BCE
> > "Old Germanic" spoken in Scandinavia.
>
> *****GK: Germanic is also associated with the area of
> the Jastorf culture in N. Germany*****
> >
> > 200 BCE
> > Old Germanic in Scandinavia, Scirian and
> > Bastarnean in Southern
> > Poland moving southeast.
>
> *****GK: There is ample archaeological evidence
> associating the southeastern spread of Germanic
> dialects (including those of the Sciri and Basternae)
> with the southeastern expansion of the Jastorf
> culture, beginning in the 3rd c. BC. This BTW was made
> possible by the near total collapse of classical
> Scythia in the generations posterior to the defeat of
> Zopirion.*******
> >
> > 50 BCE
> > Old Germanic in Scandinavia, Bastarnean arrives in
> > Thuringia, where
> > it mixes with the earlier arrived Iranian speakers
> > to become
> > Hermundurian.
>
> ******GK: Now this is completely fantastic, as pointed
> out many many times, apparently to no avail. In 60/50
> BC the only "Iranians" which would (barely, since
> neither controlled cities)fit Snorri's Odin story
> would be either the Aorsi or the Alans. There is no
> evidence that representatives of either group had
> reached "Gardariki" (Don to Danube) before the 1rst c.
> AD, and certainly no archaeological evidence of any
> kind in Central Europe to substantiate this.

Substantiate what?

>There is
> no evidence that the Basternae, still very powerful,
> had acquired an Iranic ruling class in any sense or
> location in 60/50 BC.

You know so much. Please tell me about the arrival of the Hermunduri
in Thuringia and associated finds.

>There is no evidence AT ALL of
> any massive Bastarnean removal to the West.

I think I said to the north, from Pannonia. As for Pannonian, Tacitus
begs to differ (Aravisci, Osi; note the name).

>We know a
> great deal about the Bastarnean material culture of
> the 1rst c. BC, the so-called Poeneshti-Lukashevka
> cult. There are no P/L elements in central Europe in
> the 1rst c. BC NONE.

Please tell me the characteristics of P/L material culture, then I'll
go check myself.

> It's not at all surprising that
> there are no linguistic arguments worth a candle to
> back up Torsten's scenario.******
>

That's not what Piotr said. He just doesn't like the arguments. A non-
denial denial.

Torsten