Re: [tied] Re: Germanic Scythians?

At 6:36:42 AM on Saturday, March 8, 2003, tgpedersen wrote:

> Alvissmál mentions

> http://www.beige.org/giltweasel/stuff/old_norse/alvissmal3.txt
> verse 16

> that "men call it 'sol' [that is the North Germanic word
> for sun], gods [ie. aesir, that is, the people that
> invaded Scandinavia at the time and brought inhumation
> burial with them] call it 'sunna' [that is the West
> Germanic word for sun]". Thus the Aesir spoke a West
> Germanic-like language.

The <sól> type isn't exclusively North Gmc.; Gothic has
<sauil>. Gothic also has <sunno:> and <sunna>, by the way.
In any case I don't see how you can justify such an
inference without at least considering the rest of the list
as well:

Men Aesir
--- -----
jörð fold
himinn hlýrnir
máni mylinn
sól sunna
ský skúrván
vindr váfuðr
logn lœgi
sær sílœgja
eldr funi
viðr vallarfax
nótt njól
bygg barr
öl með

I don't see anything to mark the second column as
particularly West Gmc.

> According to Hunibald, the people that came from the east
> changed their language during their sojourn in Germania.
> His work is generally considered a forgery, but he has an
> interesting detail

> http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/013_16.html

> He uses the name Wechtam of a holy minstrel and singer, a
> name reminiscent of the Old Norse name Vegtam-r, Odin uses
> of him self,

Note that the name has an obvious meaning in ON and is one
of several similar constructions (<vígtamr>, <gangtamr>,
<valtamr>). It would appear unlikely to be a borrowing.

> but also of Vakhtang, the Georgian (I think it was)
> version of Iranian V&r&Tragna. Georgia is in the vicinity
> of the old kingdom of Vani, where I suggested before that
> the Vanir came from. Now how would a forger come up with a
> coincidence like that?

What coincidence, exactly? You've pointed to superficial
resemblances between <Wechtam> and <Vegtamr> on the one hand
and between <Vakhtang> and <Vegtamr> on the other. In order
to claim that both are significant, you must further claim
that there is a connection between <Vegtamr> and <Vakhtang>.
This appears most unlikely, to put it mildly.

Brian