dmilt1896@... wrote:
>
> OK, if the Trojans were Thracians. Can you demonstrate that?
> Dan
>
The question is how. What should be accepted as a valid demonstration
here?There are 3 aspects I guess.
1) ancient testimonies
2) Archaeology
3) Toponyms & Hydronimes of pre-Roman times
More as these 3 aspects I cannot think about now.
1) Ancient testimonies.
not only once but several times the Trojans have been considerate to be
Thracians. First of all, don't please ask me to come with texts, they
are here, they should be presented when someone do not believe it.
Beginning with Herodot is several times said the Trojans have been
thracians.
2) Archaeology
the Italic tribes are seen in connection with Culture Villa Novo. The
Origin of the Italian Tribes is suspected to be somewhere on Middle
course of Danube, somewhere in Panonian- Space. This is what I can say
about archaeology. The Villa Novo culture is very strong represented in
Italy but too in Panonia and Dacia.
3) Toponyms and Hydronims of pre-Roman times
I guess Strabo is a very best source here. He mentions a lot about what
should be common to them. Let us a bit see ( now I do not write from
unverified data, I just copy from Strabo , English version on the net).
Of course I will not try now to give an exhaustive reference, who want
can read by him/herself in Strabo:
Strabo, Book 13.21
"There was also a city Arisba in Lesbos, whose territory is occupied by
the Methymnaeans. And there is an Arisbus River in Thrace, as I have
said before,101 near which are situated the Thracian Cebrenians. There
are many names common to the Thracians and the Trojans; for example,
there are Thracians called Scaeans, and a river Scaeus, and a Scaean
Wall, and at Troy the Scaean Gates. And there are Thracian Xanthians,
and in Troy-land a river Xanthus. And in Troy-land there is a river
Arisbus which empties into the Hebrus, as also a city Arisbe. And there
was a river Rhesus in Troy-land; and there was a Rhesus who was the king
of the Thracians. And there is also, of the same name as this Asius,
another Asius in Homer"
I guess there are references enough for trying to put them together. But
I will come now the the text I begun. Are such points enough for a valid
demonstration or not?
P.S. I amused myself about the Rom. toponym as Boldesti-Scaeni, Scaenii
de Jos and so on. One can take them just as phonological coincidence, an
another can take them as something else. As for the toponym "Gherghita"
and name "Gherghita & Ghergina" in Romanian ant the plural in "e" as
Strabo extra underlines, "Gherghite" it is again a coincidence. Or maybe
not. What I miss here are the words for "wall" and "gate". I should like
to know if Strabo used for "wall " and "gate" the Greek words or if he
gave the Trojan/Thracian words. It seems he used the greek words for
explaining "wall" and "gate" and has put just the properly name there as
"Scaeni". Reading such stuff in the Geographica of Strabo and comparing
the known actually toponym , one feels strange..