Re: [tied] Re: Help with ban_Banat

v.karloukovski@... wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "S & L" <mbusines@...> wrote:
>> From Peter Dobrev's "Ezikyt na Asparukhovite i Kuberovi
> bylgari,
> Rechnik i
>> Gramatika", Sofia, 1995 found at
>> http://members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/b_lang/bl_oldwords.html as "The
>
>
> Dobrev doesn't not claim there that the name of Banat comes from the
> title 'ban'. Instead, he interprets 'Banat' as containing the
> definitive article -at, similar, according to him, to other medieval
> toponyms from Bulgaria as well as north of the Danube. In his chapter
> IV (left untranslated) he says:
>
> "Transylvania was named 'Banat' by the Bulgars, probably from 'ban'
> (mountain), found in Pashto and in the Caucasus. 'Banat' in the
> Pamirian l-s literally means 'the mountains' and it is an almost
> exact copy of the Latin name 'Transylvania' and the Slavic name of
> the same region - ZAGURA - from the expression ZA GURU - beyond the
> mountain. The particular Bulgarian name 'Banat' has been in use
> throughout the whole early Middle Ages, in parallel to the
> Slavic 'Zagura' (Zagora)'
>

Since the name "Banat" is conserved in the actually Rom. Lang., I ask
myself why no trace of the another name "za guru"?
BTW, the "ban" is in Serbian and Bulgarian old stories allways in
relationship with Romanians, I am wrong here?
As for "-at" one could connect it with "hanat", "kaghanat" for showing
the bulgarian trace, but in the same way it can be related to "regat",
"ducat" for corelating it with the european words. I guess just on the
basis of a suffix is hard to make a viable connection.
What I know about this word is that it must be old enough since the
derivatives are with "ã" like: "bãnie"
The Ban was the second one after the king in Rom. Principates ( I see
here the same paralelism with Bayan= imperator and possbily "ban"= the
second one , a "smaller imperator", I do not exclude the possibility).
The very important of them was The Ban of Severin so far I remember.

As for the another meaning of "ban"= money, I have had with Piotr one
discution about regarding the german pfening, english pence, polish
pieniadz, and so on. It waas a discution regarding a time where people
payd with texture and such stuff, maybe he will remember what about. The
rom. word for "ban"= money is given with an unknown etymology.