Re: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?

Dear Peter:

----- Original Message -----
From: "P&G" <petegray@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:45 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?


> > > Otherwise, I certainly voice English /d/.
>
> I happily believe you voice English /d/ as English /d/ is "voiced" by a
> native speaker - but that may not mean actual voicing in phonetic terms!

[PCR]
You are proposing definitional anarchy. "Voice" can and must represent the same phenomenon in any language to which the term is applied; otherwise it is useless as a term.

> The actual phenomenon of /d/ etc is complex, involving influence on
> surrounding sounds, and factors other than pure voice. When a native
> speaker thinks they "voice" a /d/, they may in fact be merely producing all
> the other concomitant factors which are interpreted as voicing by other
> native speakers. Mere native speaker intuition is here not enough.

[PCR]
My native speaker intuition tells me that you have completely missed the point.

Pat

PATRICK C. RYAN | PROTO-LANGUAGE@... (501) 227-9947 * 9115 W. 34th St. Little Rock, AR 72204-4441 USA WEBPAGES: PROTO-LANGUAGE: http://www.geocities.com/proto-language/ and PROTO-RELIGION: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2803/proto-religion/indexR.html "Veit ec at ec hecc, vindgá meiði a netr allar nío, geiri vndaþr . . . a þeim meiþi, er mangi veit, hvers hann af rótom renn." (Hávamál 138)