Re: [tied] The word for horse

From: alex_lycos
Message: 18731
Date: 2003-02-11

Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "alex_lycos" <altamix@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [tied] The word for horse
>
>
>> I agree with DEX -- and why shouldn't I? Slavic *kaliti 'harden'
>> exists (and you can find it e.g. in Serbo-Croatian)
>>
>> Piotr
>>
>>
>> 1) just in serbo-croatian?
>
> No, everywhere in Slavic
>
>> 2) is slavic not a satem language? How should be the form fom PIE
>> here?
>
> Satem languages also have lots of words with /k/. It was only one set
> of dorsal phonemes (*k^, *g^, *g^H) that were palatalised. *k and *kW
> > k everywhere in the Satem group
>
> Piotr
>
> Piotr


Not because of this I put the question. But let us take a look first at
the word "kaliti" and its cognates:
PIE *kal1= hard, to harden
Slavic : kaliti
Eltic : calath
Italic : callum
Baltic : kalstu
Sanskrit: kina
They should be the cognates. Let us observe what in Slavic the
derivatives from PIE *kal--- looks like:
*kal2="", *kal3="", kalap (swan)=kolpik, *kalka (heel)= klika, *kall (
to molest)="", *kalni (path)= klanec, *kalso="".

The first one reason I asked, was the missing of Methathesis in the word
"kaliti" but it seems this was not a Word where to be made a
Methathesis. I searced for these roots for seeing if there _must_ have
been a methathesis, but it seems , it was no "must".

Now to the Romanian word "cãli". Why should be Slavic? There are 2
reasons:
- no rothacism of "l"
- the "i" in "cãli" like in Slavic.

no rothacism:

Here follows some Rom. examples with no rothacism of the "l" which have
cognates in Latin words with an normal "l" and no geminate "ll" where
the semantism is OK and the phonetically form appropriate:
-lat. colostra, Rom "colastra"
-Lat."velum" , Rom "vãl"
-Lat. eligere , Rom. "alege"(!)-DEX dim. form "allegere"
-Lat anulus , Rom. "inel" (!)-DEX= dim. form "anellus"
-Lat. oleum , Rom. "ulei" (!)-DEX= slav. "olej"
-Lat. coloris , Rom. "culoare"
I don't want give examples from the set of reconstructed forms like "a
alerga"= to run from Latin *allergare ( = from largus= wide)

presence of "-i-" :

the end of the word in "-i-" doesn't mean this is a Slavic borrowing. On
the same way I can say the Slavic borrowed it from an language which
made the participium in "t" like in Romanian a cali= participium
"cãlit"; on another hand, when we speak about someone who is versatile
in fight for instance we use adj. "cãlit" with the same meaning as in
Latin 'callidus'. (this time with geminate "ll")
Other words like "a fugi" ("Rom. "fugã", Latin "fugo"; Greek "fuge") end
too in "i" and there are a lot of verbs which ends in "-i-". I don't
guess that the "i" in Slavic should be an argument for a loan from
Slavic.
I guess the semantism here is important too and the family of
derivatives too.
Now to the semantically point of "a cali"
a cãli: to temper; to quench, to chill, to harden (through), to steel;
to fry in oil food;
Latin semantism of "caleo"= warm, hot, still warm,
I see here the connection with the another word "cãlâi/cãlâie"= a bit
warm or stil warm.
Neither "cãli" nor "calâi" can derive regulate from Latin but they are
identically as sense and appropriate as form.
If I admit this is a slavic word, in this case I can very well say the
Slavic influenced the Celtic languages too since the form in Celtic is
too with in "t" like in Slavic. But the Slavs did not went so far.

Alex