[tied] Re: viridis.. just for Miguel, other please ignore

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com,
"m_iacomi <m_iacomi@...>"
<m_iacomi@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com,

"Richard Wordingham" wrote:
I only set out to code up the rules
Miguel gave for stressed vowels.
However, the development of /T/ is
covered in Rule 4 Part 2. You are
welcome to expand the rules.
Richard.

>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com,

"alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:

> >
> >> Miguel, just one question more

please. Which is the phonetically

> >> explanation of Romanian "verde"

= green in this case?

> >> We have for "varza" = Latin

"vir(i)dia"

> >> We have for "verde" = Latin

"vir(i)dis"

> >>
> >> Why once "e" and once "a" , why

once "d" and once "z" ?

> >
> > If you created green.lex with

the two Latin words (minus the

> > braketed 'i'), and remember to

have an end of line after last word,

> > and ran:
> >
> > sounds -p green romanian
> >
> > you would see the answer.
>
> Well, there is room for

improvement of that set of rules
since

> you didn't include the T (= /ts/)

among the consonants, no rules

> for derinving it, no rhotacization

of -l-, etc. -- that is one

> should not expect to get always

the correct answer. On another

> hand, you have done some good

work. In this particular case, it

> gives the correct derivation. And

as you say:

>
> > Effectively, the final /a/ makes

all the difference. It does

> > it by yodicising the last /i/
>
> That is: /i/ becames a yod (/j/

in this notation) which is

> responsible for alteration of /d/

in /dz/ and further in /z/

> in Daco-Romanian. Without

yodicising, /i/ > /e/.

>
> > and then breaking what was the

first /i/, which is then

> > smoothed by the initial /v/.
>
> Actually, the rule is like that:

we have the first /i/ > /e/

> accomplished somewhere around

primitive common Romanian; then

> stressed /e/ > /ea/ according to

the late rule: before /a/ or /&/

> in the next syllable (as proven by

early Slavic loans: /mrena/ >

> /mrean&/, /tSeta/ > /tSeat&/).

Finally, /ea/ gets simplified in

> /a/ (the tendency is attested

since 1219: the toponym Fata instead

> of the primitive Romanian "Feata",

most monophtongations were

> already accomplished in the XVI-th

century).

>
> Regards,
> Marius Iacomi