Re: [tied] Ancient female figurines (was Medieval Dragons, dog/snak

From: Shock Ra
Message: 18177
Date: 2003-01-27

>From: "Glen Gordon"
>Subject: Re: [tied] Ancient female figurines (was Medieval Dragons, dog/snake, Greek D...
>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:26:05 +0000
> >I don't believe he is the victim of the first "sin." Rather, he is the
> >victim of the first sacrifice.
>I couldn't possibly believe that sacrifice didn't happen. Afterall,
>the whole horns and double-axe imagery appears to me to be implying
>prehistoric sacrifice ritual involving an animal of some kind, let
>alone the countless IE myths that seem to tie together to imply the
>same. The question, however, is what is the purpose behind the story
>of the rivalling brothers?
>Sacrifice would not be considered a sin, no, since this is an act to
>worship your deities and give back what is taken from you. However,
>I can't help thinking that the Labours of Hercules and the story of
>a warrior slaying a dragon to regain his stolen crops is tied in with
>With Hercules, Hera punishes him but the reasons behind why she does
>this basically involve empty jealousy. The fact that Zeus was being
>a horndog sleeping around with women that he shouldn't have is the
>cause of this. I then see a connection with the serpent-slaying as
>one of these labours that an original "hero", the first man, must
>perform. The interesting thing about heroes in these legends is that
>they often seem to glorify a "handicap" hero. Hercules, for example,
>is only _half_ god.
>I feel that the "human handicap" as it were (or rather "mortality")
>is the main punishment for the sin of killing one's brother. A Hera-like
>character representing "justice" would have carried out the punishment
>of mortality and the labours to endure (aka "community service") that were

>decided upon by *Dye:us, representing the other side of the coin, "law".  

>By undergoing these labours, even a murderer, a person like that of the
>wolf, can redeem themselves. Few cultures would condone the killing of
>one's own blood, even for ritualistic purposes. Even in the Bible, we
>have Cain and Abel which demonstrate the duelling brother theme nicely.
>Here, there is no redemption and Cain is banished forever because this
>is the particular morality of the culture behind this version of the
>So such a tale would speak of the origin of "man", the reasons behind
>"mortality", the crime of jealousy and murder, and finally the basic law
>of redemption, all in one blow. Not bad, hunh?

>- gLeN

Interesting. The Epic of Gilgamesh seems to demonstrate some of the motifs you are talking about.

Motif of parted twins/ best friends(Gilgamesh and Enkidu), the fall of natural/primoridal man(Enkidu seduced by the city priestess), the bull of heaven (bull of heaven is killed, gods get angry, kill Enkidu, spare Gilgamesh-scapegoat theme?). In this case, Gilgamesh doesn't kill his twin/friend, but nonetheless becomes aware of his mortality, the human handicap, as you say. Then, he does go on  a long journey in an attempt to redeem himself. Also, Gilgamesh, like Hercules, was partly mortal, partly divine.

Cort Williams





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