Re: [tied] Re: latin viridis (it was green albanian)

On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:46:46 +0100, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...>
wrote:

>---------------
>> 5) 6) 7) /é/, /ié/ and /o/ > /eá/, /ieá/, /oá/ before final -e and -a
>> (but not -u); d(i)récta > dreaptã but d(i)réctu > drept
>---------------
>
>here is nothing for our example since if "drept" is from Latin
>"directus", then "i" was elided and doesn't play a role here.

Especially since the /i/ was unstressed and the example was about the
stressed /é/ (/E/).

>---------------
>> 8) In Northern Romanian, before -e (not -a), /ea/ and /iea/ > /e/,
>> /ie/: lege > leadZe (= MRom. leadze) > ledZe; *measã pl. mese; *featã
>> pl. fete; *pieatrã, pl. pietre, *piearde > pierde)
>--------------
>
>for all these examples here we have the Latin words fetum, petra, perdo,
>everywhere an /e/ but no /i/

It doesn't matter, /e:/ follows the same path as /i/, and /i/ the same
as /e:/: the two had merged in Balkan Romance (in all of Romance
except Sardinian as a matter of fact). If you want Latin /i/ > /e/ >
/ea/, there are plenty of examples as well. To give just one: sec,
seacã (Lat. siccu, sicca).

>--------------
>> 9) /iea/ > /ia/ (Erba > ierba > iearba > iarbã, pEtra > pietra >
>> pieatra > piatrã). Likewise tErra > tiera > tieara > t,arã; sEpte >
>> siepte > sieapte > s,apte)
>--------------
>
>here the same: herba, petra, septem, terra. No /i/ at all.

Sure: Latin /i/ cannot give /iea/.

>-------------
>> 10) In Northern Romanian, /ea/ > /a/ after a labial: MRom. measã,
>> featã > Rom. masã, fatã
>------------
>
>here the same: mensa, fetum , no /i/ at all.

vir(i)dia > varzã, virga > vargã "rod", etc.

>Now we come to your derivation:
>
>Latin viridia -> PBR vérdia > [5] veárdia > veárzã > [10] várzã
>
>From your /ie/ which comes from an /e/ or /ea/ but not from an /i/ you
>want to get an /ea/ before /r/.

Nope.

>I agree , it can be I misunderstood something.

Yep. You should distinguish between Romance /e/ (in the handbooks
mostly written as e with dot underneath) which is a closed /e/ like
French /é/ in été or German /ee/ in Idee, and Romance /E/ (in the
handbooks written as e with ogonek/cedilla underneath), which is an
open /E/ like French /è/, /ê/ in être or German /e/ in Elbe, or like a
sheep's bèèèè.


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...