Re: [tied] house and hip

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 17542
Date: 2003-01-12

----- Original Message -----
From: "alex_lycos" <altamix@...>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 9:54 AM
Subject: [tied] house and hip

> A question:
> why cannot be the Germanic word "haus" cognate with Latin word "casa"
> and the Germanic word "hüfte" cognate with Latin word "coxa"?

Because there is really no way of relating Germanic long *u: in *xu:saz to Latin /a/ in casa. The latter probably represents older *kassa < *kadH-ta: (hence no rhotacism), related to <castrum> while *xu:saz is usually believed to be a derivative of the 'hide' verb (PGmc. *xu:d-j-an- < *ku:dH-): *ku:dH-to-s > *xu:ssaz, with degemination after a long vowel. *ku:dH- in turn is an extension of the root *keu(-H)- ~ *skeu(-H)- 'cover, conceal', cf. also the English _noun_ <hide> 'skin' < *kuH-tís, related to Lat. cutis.

> Hip:
> I my dictionary I see that the word "Hüfte" is given as being cognate
> with Latin "cubitus" but I fail to see the transformation.

It's straightforward:

Pre-Gmc. *kub-i-s > PGmc. *xupiz (Grimm's Law) > OE hype > hip
Pre-Gmc. *kub-ita: > PGmc. *xupiþo: > OHG *hupf(i)do: > Ger. hüfte

> I take in consideration here the following words: latin "coxa", albanian "kofshe:" rom. "coapsa" , germanic "Hüfte" I think nor Romanian word neither Albanian word are reflexes of Latin "coxa" since from Latin "cossa" there could not derive clusters like "ps" and "fsh". In this way, these words are to be seen cognates with the Latin word from very ancient times when even in Latin the pronunciation of the Latin "coxa" was still "cocsa" and not "cossa".

You must be joking. What "very ancient" times? Lat. -ks- and -ss- did not merge yet in Proto-Romance. They give different reflexes in several Romance languages. The change of -ks- > -ps- (-fsh- in Latinate Albanian words) is neatly parallelled by -kt- > -pt- (lots of Romanian examples, e.g. nocte-, lucta-, directa-, frictu-, octo:, coctu- > noapte, luptã, dreaptã, fript, opt, copt, etc.; cf. Albanian luftë or even Tosk ftua, Geg ftue < *fto:n < *kto:n- < coto:nea 'quince').