to guard and children

From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 17240
Date: 2002-12-20

guard (n.) - c.1400, from M.Fr. garde "guardian, warden, keeper," from
garder "to guard," from O.Fr. guarder, from Frank. *wardon, from P.Gmc.
*warthon. Originally abstract or collective (bodyguard); the verb is
mid-15c., from the noun. Guardian (M.E.) is from Anglo-Fr. gardein, from
O.Fr. gardien, earlier guarden, from Frank. *warding-.

In Romanian, there is this word too, as "gardã", but a guardian is a

There is an old form = gardist.

Until here seems everything OK since a loan from French is not a
problem. I wondered why DEX doesn't speak here about a loan from French.
DEX gives as fallow:

gardist=(old) .Policeman = gardã+suffix "-ist".; like "vardist"

vardist=" like "gardist"

Of course one will wonder how /v/=/g/? That is not possible. I guess too
, this is not possible.

So where from is coming this "v" then?

I remembered about the time as we was children. We have had some games
and one of them was " the thieves and the policemen" in Romanian "
hotsii Si vardiStii".

I thought, maybe this is a loan from the Germans who are living in
Romania since long time, so there must be this "v" coming from. But
there was a problem. In German there is already an "e" and a "t" in the
word: Wärter.

OK, I thought, in the Mhd must have been there an "a" and an "d", so I
took a look at the Mhd word for "warten/wärter" and I found as follows
:"warten" like in actual German for "warten". That was pretty ok, I
could find the "a". But there is the "d" to be explained. So I took a
look at the Ahd for seeing the word. The word is "warten" with a long e.

That is bad. Even the Ahd form is still with "t". I thought, maybe
Romanians changed "t" to "d".

From linguistic point of view, both letters (t, d) are dental and pretty
easy to interchange. (speak "to confound ")

So my problem was over. Until today. Today , taking a look in my gothic
dictionary I found the form for "Wärter" given as "wards" .With "a" and
with "d". So like in the Romanian word "vard+ist"

And here is the question for a good linguist. How is this one to

Is the Romanian "vard+ist" a derivate of the german "Wärter" or is the
Romanian word the word took direct from gothic "wards"?

P.S. from semantic point of view there are no discrepancies either with
Wärter or with "Wards" or with "vardist".