Re: [tied] das Wort

----- Original Message -----
From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] das Wort


> <dvorIba> is unconnected with <govoriti>. It contains the
Slavic suffix <-Iba>, as in OCS sluz^Iba 'service' or molIba
'request, prayer' (from the verbs sluz^iti 'serve', moliti
'entreat'). <dvoriti> means 'attend on (sb)' (from <dvorU>
'court'), so <dvorIba> is 'attendance'. If your etymological
dictionary is right, then the meaning of <vorba> probably
developed from something like 'entertaining, courtly speech'
(I hope out resident Romanian linguists can confirm or correct
this guess). Not unlikely, given that in many Romance
languages the word for 'word' (It. parola, Port. palavra, Sp.
palabra) derives from Gk. (--> Lat.) <parabola> 'comparison,
analogy' (> 'narrative' > 'speech, word').

[Moeller]
thank you Piotr. It helped me a lot for making some
connections. Very interesting the slavic word "dvorU" here.
Fallow please my toughts:

from slavic side there is in rom. lang. for sure the word
"pridvor"= from slavic "pritvorU" with the same semantic
sense. I suppose "pritvorU" is a derivate of "dvorU". In rom
the group "tv" is a fonetical restriction , but not the group
"dv", meaning there should have not been any trouble of taking
it from slavic so how it is , meaning with "dv"
,"dvorb"+romanian suffix for naturalisation of the word in the
rom.lang. and having today not "vorba" but "dvorba."

On the another side, there is latin verbum which has too the
"b" inside and means wort, like in romanian:verbum=vorba (
remember dacian habbit of "-a" terminations for nom. sg.)
On the tirth point, if the rom. are not late immigrants (
after VII centuries) in nord of Danube we see a change from
"a" to "o" or to "u" in the ancient hidronimy .Marisis>Muresh
and because of it I suppose a transformation
verba>vãrba>vorba.

The last tought is I knew that PIE *dh >d in old idiom of
getae which should mean there cannot be a root *werdh for rom.
vorba. But, I see in 2 examples ( I need to verify more) that
it seems there is an exception. PIE *dh>b in ancient idiom
when falowed a liquid .And the both words where I see this
explained are:
*bhardha>barba
*werdh>varba>vorba.
In both cases we have "r" fallowed by "dh" with the result
"b".
I need to verify in more examples that this *dh after a liquid
gave and "b" instead of normaly "d", the two mentionated
example beeing in my opinion, too few for having some power of
acceptation.
I still cannot explain myself why sometimes a>o>u and
sometimes not, remaining at "a" or "ã"

Once again, thank you. It seems tough very probabile.If I can
verify it on more examples and specialy on the substrat words
of rom.lang, there will be an another basis for what I
supposed here.