Re: [tied] Vocative case in Romance

From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 16666
Date: 2002-11-10

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Vocative case in Romance

> > fact all the sufixes of the declination in
> >are not as in latin, and specialy the vocative, , it is
> >the vocative is in Romanian inherited from latin and the
> >vocative for feminine is a slavic influence, ending in "o"
> Both masc. -e and fem. -o are from Slavic. This is obvious
in the
> case of feminine -o (Slavic -o, Latin -a). The masculine
voc. in -e
> could in principle be Latin (-e) or Slavic (-e), but
everything seems
> to indicate that the vocative had been lost from Vulgar
Latin early
> on.

1) for the 2-end latin declination:N.deus, V. deus is an
exception , right?
2) and what about the românian vocative in "ã"?
3) you said -e and -o for masc and feminine are from slavic
and this is "obvious".I am not so sure if this is obvious. And
let me explain you why.
All what is sg. feminine in rom.lang. ends in "ã". In rom.
lang. vocative can be maid just with wovels.Andf the rom.
wovels are: " a", "e", "i", "o", "u", "ã", "â"
We will try to exclude them due the way of use.
i= not for fem. sg
o= not for
u= not for
"â" = not at the end of any word.
So, we have the follwings wovels which we can use for making
vocative: "a","e", "ã"
Is there a vocative in "a" ? Yes. But just when the word is
articulated so "a" is reserved for articulated words and not
for forms without definite article.That means we can use "e"
and "ã" for vocative:
Leana= Leanã
Marie= Marie
Maria= Marie

But we do not have to forget that from time to time, for some
words is used the vocative in "o" to. And here is the
question. Is here the slavic in fluence?
Let see in examples:
sora= soro where sorã is not so genuine but it can be used.
fata= fato where fatã is not so genuine.
adj. proasta= proasto
These examples just for stand alone words. But in expresions?
"fãi fatã", "fai sorã", " fai proasta naibii" etc. You will
say in these expresions is not a properly vocative maybe.
For me is not clear why the vocative in "o" is a slavic
influence. Why?Because in slavic is vocatiev too?Is the "o" in
slavic the only vocative ending?
Are slavic languages the only languages with vocative in "o"?
It will be nice to see which are the reasons to think the "-o"
stem is a slavic influence.