[tied] Re: OE *picga

From: tgpedersen
Message: 16581
Date: 2002-11-02

--- In cybalist@..., "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...>
> --- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > And note that the spotted, "besprenkelt" meaning is just one the
> > branches that the almighty Austronesian/AfroAsiatic/IE *p/bH-r/l-
> > word has sprouted
> >
> > http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Opr.html
> >
> > namely "split, half" > "smash" > "pulverize, bespatter"
> > "variegated"
> >
> > which means you can't contain *h1/w-epros to IE either, nor
> *pork^os.
> > Considering that Manansal's/my list contains less than 100 roots
> > coincidence, isn't it surprising how much mileage I can get out
> > it? Every time a central idea in IE comes up I can find a match
> > it on the list? Unless one wants to consider the alternative:
> > was contact?
> The p/bH-r/l- pattern matches a good many roots, as Piotr has
> pointed out. As an experiment, why not take every 50th root in
> Pokorny and see what proportion of them you can match up with the
> list.
Wouldn't it make more sense to search among those roots that have
what looks like plausible derivations of *p/bH-r/l- ? But talking of
which, I joined the Austronesian list and found on


which non-members can't read, therefore

The striking parallel between (1) *hipaR "sibling-in-law" and (2)
*hipaR "opposite side of a river" is a strong evidence that PMP
society had moieties (*baliw). This also confirms what Blust (1980 :
226) suggested in 1980 :
"It thus seems likely that the dual divisions of Proto-Malayo-
Polynesian society were at least traditionally, if not physically,
associated with settlements on either side of a river." Blust (1980 :
Blust (R.A)
1980 "Notes on Proto-Malayo-Polynesian phratry dualism ".BKI 136 :

(1) *hipaR "sibling-in-law (same-sex)" (Blust ACD)

Tambunan Dusun tipAg WB, HB, ZH
Labuk Kadazan ipag WB, ZH (m.s)
Makiang ipag WB, ZH (m.s)
Iban ipar SpSib, SibSp
Palawan ipag WZ, BW (m.s), HZ, HB, ZH (w.s), BW (w.s)
Lamboya ipa HZ, BW (w.s)
Keo occidental ipa WZ, WBW, BW,
Keo oriental ipa BW (m.s), WBW,

(2) *hipaR "opposite side of a river" (Blust ACD)

Mansaka dipag "other side, opposite side"
Manobo dehipag "the opposite side of a canyon or valley"
Tiruray difar "the other side, in the sense of the side facing the
'ifar "to cross over to the other side (as of a river or street)"
se'ifar tamuk "to negotiate formally the terms of a brideprice"
Mukah dipah "opposite bank of a river"
Kayan (Baluy) dipah "opposite bank of a river"
Kelabit dipar "opposite side"
Uma Juman dipah "either of the sides of a river"

Table 1 : reflexes of *hipaR in various regions

Philippines *hipaR WZ, BW (m.s), HZ, BW (w.s) f -> f , m <-> f
Bornéo *ipaR WB , ZH (m.s) m -> m
Sumba *ipa HZ , BW (w.s) f -> f
Flores *ipaR HZ , BW (w.s) , WZ , ZH (w.s) ? f -> f , m <-> f
POC *ipa(R) HB , WB m <-> f

which reminded me of what Møller found

extended with -r-; relativity suffix (?)
*!-b-r- Pre-
*op-r- Proto-
extended grade
*o:pr- Proto-
o:fer "river bank, coast" Old English
o:ver "river bank, coast" Low German
oever "river bank, coast" Dutch
uover "river bank, coast" Middle High
2nd high tone form
*!abár- Pre-
*p-r- Proto-
pére:n "on the other side of" Greek
pérathen "from the other side" Greek
peráo: "take across the sea
to be sold" Greek
perai~os "being on
the other side" Greek
peraióo: "go, take across to
the other bank, coast" Greek
pa:rá- "the opposite
bank, coast" Greek
pa:ra n. "bank, coast" Avestan
pa:ráyati "go, take across" Sanskrit
fra-pa:rayeiti "takes across" Avestan

*!-b-r- Semitic
!abara "he crossed, passed over
(namely a river)" Arabic
!a:bar "cross (e.g. a river)" Hebrew
ebe:ru inf. "cross (e.g. a river)" Assyrian
!&ba:ra: "passing, ford" Hebrew
*!ibr- Common Semitic
!íbrun "bank or side
(of a river)" Arabic
!èbær "the opposite side
of a river (or sea)" Hebrew
!ebrå: "the opposite side
of a river (or sea)" Syrian
ebru "the opposite side
of a river (or sea)" Assyrian
ebirtu "the opposite bank
of a river" Assyrian
!iBra:'a: "the opposite area" Hebrew

Originally without doubt signifying only the bank of
a river or coast of a strait where the other side
is visible, therefore most frequently connected with
"the one, the other, the opposite bank".
Which is what one would expect in Sundaland, with straits
ever widening, forcing people to learn to sail.

(taken from



etc, and more of the same stuff, look for yourself. And there's a
suffix *-g in Russian 'bereg' etc.

> Richard.