alexmoeller@... wrote:
<<....the origin of this suffix (-esc) must be looked in thracian, because
the latin sufix -iscus, like the greek suffix -iskos, makes only
diminiutives. But in thracian, -isk appears in name of toponyms and in
antroponyms too and, it makes adjectives which shows the origin and the
relation of belonging to, exactly like in romanian.
Piotr replied:
<<Exactly as in Germanic and Slavic. Thracian might have had it too, but
Thracian influence does not explain the popularity of adjective-forming
<-iscum> outside the Balkans (esp. It. -esco), while Germanic influence on
early Romance is undeniable and Slavic influence in the Balkans may
additionally account for a number of Romanian words in <-esc>....>>
Alex also gave some examples:
<<Some examples of thracian toponyms: Ciniscus, Clementianesce Names:
Coriscus, Etriscus, Laiscus, Lo(i)scus, Saturisc(us) Adjectives: daciscus,
thraciscus, balisca vitis...>>
Just a few small points.
1) I'm not sure why Clementianesce, Koriskos or Saturnicus are to be taken as
Thracian words in the first place. I don't recognize the other words, but
even if they are ancient and Thracian, there is no reason to think that the
derivative endings are not Greek.
2) The diminutive IS used often enough in georaphical names, in everything
from Little Poland to Little Italy in New York to the Little Big Horn River.
The concept of major (Graecia Major, I think, and Graecia Magna for sure) and
minor (Asia Minor), and greater (the Greater Hebrides) and lesser (the Lesser
Antilles), etc., is very common. And I don't see why the same might not
hold for people. (E.g., Jordanes' description of the "Lesser Goths",
mentioned in some earlier posts.)
So there is no reason why these toponyms and anthroponyms can't be
diminutives -- unless there's some reason to think they are not.
3) On a more basic level, a diminutive IS a derivative. And I don't mean as
just a matter of morphology. Conceptually, you can't have <basiliskos>, a
prince or little king, unless you already have the concept of a king,
<basileus>. You can't have a <asteriskion>, little star, unless you have a
regular star, <aster>. A relationship is implied that may go beyond a size
comparison.
The fact that there other strategies developed for expressing diminutives
doesn't necessarily eliminate the the greek -iskos as a way of expressing
"origin or belonging to" at some point in time and space.
4) It might also be pointed out that words like <thraikizo:> are attested --
using the versatile Greek -izo: -- and might have moved into other tongues
and been nativized into some other phonetic shape.
Steve Long