From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 16165
Date: 2002-10-11
----- Original Message -----
From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] expresion
----- Original Message -----
From: alexmoeller@...
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] expresion
> [Moeller] are there expresions like " hablar romances" or
something like this? Or should be in the vernacular romance
from french and spain for the romanian " "rumune$te?
The Latin adjective <ro:ma:nus> 'of Rome' (adv. <ro:ma:ne:>
'in the Roman manner') had extended variants like
<ro:ma:nicus> (adv. <ro:ma:nice:>) and <ro:man(i)ensis>
(already in Classical Latin), and in Vulgar Latin also
<ro:ma:niscum> (adv. <ro:ma:nisce:>). Cf. English Roman,
Romanic/Romance, Romanesque (borrowed from various Romance
sources), Italian Romanesco (of the urban dialect of Rome). As
you perhaps remember, -isce: > Romanian -e$te,
while -iscum, -isca > -esc, -eascã.
Piotr
[Moeller]
I remember indeed, but not that way. I allow myself to
translate from Rosetti.I excuse myself already for some "mess"
which I maybe make with the translation, but I do not care,
Marius and George are here to correct the mess of a "derranged
program" :-)
"[...]
The sufix "-esc" is derives in dacoromanian adjectives from
names; these adjectives show the way, the kind : "bãrbãtesc",
"omenesc", "pãrintesc", "românesc", "sãtesc"; the same suffix
deserve for making , from anthroponyms, toponyms and family
names, which indicate the origin: Bucure$ti(<Bucur),
Bãlãne$ti(<Bãlanul)etc."
A. Graur, another lingvist shows that for the origin of this
suffix (-esc) must be looked in thracian, because the latin
sufix -iscus, like the greek suffix -iskos, makes o n l y
diminiutives.But in thracian, -isk appears in name of toponyms
and in antroponyms too and , it makes adjectives which shows
the origin and the relation of belonging to, exactly like in
romanian.
Some examples of thracian toponyms: Ciniscus, Clementianesce
Names: Coriscus, Etriscus, Laiscus, Lo(i)scus, Saturisc(us)
Adjectives: daciscus, thraciscus, balisca vitis
After Bonfante, this suffix should be illyrian and the
presence of it in thracian should be explained due a illiric
substrate.
-e$ste which makes in romanian adverbs from adjectives
bãrbãtesc-bãrbãte$te m shoud be too a thracian form , says
Rosetti quoting from A. Graur..
It seems there is no link with latin -isce> rom. -e$te, and
too, no link where latin -iscum, -isca>rom. -esc, -easca.
Alex