Re: Celery

From: Richard Wordingham
Message: 15550
Date: 2002-09-18

--- In cybalist@..., George <gs001ns@...> wrote:
> >How is [ts] perceived by people who have [s] and [dz], but not
> >I suspect as [s]
> As by Turks. Speaking German as newbies, they say, e.g., "swei"
> /svai/ instead of "zwei" /tsvai/ (two).

I didn't think Turkish had /dz/. It has /tS/ - <c> and /dZ/ - <รง>, or
some very similar sounds.

I'm not sure that German 'zwei' two is a good example. I've
encountered claims that [sfai] is a native pronunciation.

It's a shame I don't trust this example, because this example of [s]
from George and the example of [dz] from Alex would have been just
what was needed to establish the plausibility of a Thracain [ts].

> Or... unless it's an... exception. :) (Any rule could have
> How about these? Decebalus/Decibalus, Decenaeus. Why weren't they
> Deseb-/Dezeb-, Desen-/Dezen-, Dizeb-/Dizen-?)

What's wrong with these names?

> BTW, di- > z, as in Derna > Dierna > Zern- (Tsern-) as well as
> Sabadios > Sabaz-, belongs to changes that are late, i.e. seen in
> historical epoch. (again apud Russu, cf. supra)

What does '(Tsern-)' mean and what is it based on?