Re: Keeping up, barely :-)

From: George S t a n a
Message: 15076
Date: 2002-09-04

>[Moeller] he said in romania are tartars as a group of its own
>, turks as a group of its own, shekels as a group of its own
>when the hungarian want let them be so:-)

No Israeli shekels here. Szekler. And Hungarian "sz" is
pronounced /s/, not "sh" /S/. (The confusion is caused because
of the... Polish "sz".)

>No joke, the shekelrs mean they are not hungaryans , the
>hungaryan means they are, but this is not a trouble, just a
>point of view.

Initially, the Szeklers were a Turkic tribe. Nobody knows
whether Hunic or Avaric remnants or whether they were
Onogurs or Eskil Bulgars. But that was long ago, more than
thousand years ago. In medieval, even in modern times,
they assimilated many Romanians. Anyway, they see themselves
and are seen by other Hungarians as the most conservative
and nationalist Hungarians.

>Somehow these people must got there. When did the tartar
>invasion have been?1212 AC? wow, they did not romanized at
>all? I do not belive it:-))))))))))

And why didn't romanianize those Szeklers and Hungarians
in Transylvania? What do you think? (As for the few Tartars
that remained scattered in Moldavia or Wallachia, they were
assimilated immediately, unlike those in Dobrudja, that, as
you very well know, was since prince Mircea cel Batran until
the 80s of the 19th century a Turkish province.)

>None of these people identifies themself as cuman, pechengs or
>avars ( some people suppose the shekelers are the old avars).

Not even Hungarians of Kunság ("Cumania") in South-East Hungary
(in the Tisza plains, up to Szeged), although this part of population
has Cuman extraction as well: the chronicles say that in the 30s
of the 13th century "40" thousand tents moved from what's now
Moldavia (incl. today's Republic of Moldova) to Hungary, and
that in the 80s-90s of the same century one parte of them went
back to Ukraine disappearing in the Turkic configurations of
the "Golden Horde". But many Cumans stayed put.