Re: for Alvin

--- In cybalist@..., "altamix" <altamix@...> wrote:

>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> An: <cybalist@...>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 16. August 2002 12:15
> Betreff: [tied] Re: for Alvin
>
>
> --- In cybalist@..., "altamix" <altamix@...> wrote:
> > I ask myself if this is a slavic sufix which is borowed by
> albanians and rumanians or maybe this sufix is from the substrate

of

> both languages ( alb. and rom.)
> >
> > best regards
> >
> > a. moeller
>
> And I ask myself if perhaps all the shared features of the

prototype

> of all Sprachbünde, the Balkan one, are not better explained as
> coming from this Daco-Mysian or Thracian substrate. It is probably
> safe to guess that that(those) language(s) had postponed articles?
>
> Torsten
>
> [Moeller]this is an alternative Torsten. The problem is that the
> romanic linguists have got a bad ( grinse) habbit. They want for
> everything a wrotten document. So, we have almost nothing from

dacian

> if we thinks about documents. Some toponymes, some ethonymes, some
> hydronimes and some name of the plants which we have from

Dioscorides

> and Pseudo Appuleius. As a matter of fact, the names are not the
> same in some cases by Dioscorides and Pseudo Appuleius, the both,
> giving different names for the same plant, but affirming " the

dacian

> say to this so_and_so".
> I could find out some plantes have indeed a rumanian name , but
> somehow the semnatic is a bit changed. For instance the

plant "pa:rul

> fetelor" transalted as " the hair of the girls" is in dacian "phito-
> phetheala" .If we get a try , we see the name is wrotten as the
> greeks it did for "f" using "ph" and "th" for "t" so, we can

rewrite

> this name as "fito-feteala". If "feteala" can be "fetelor" being a
> genitiv form, we have some trouble with "fito". But romanians
> use "hair" as all hairs tough, they have for " one hair" the
> expresion " fir de pa:r" where "fir" is the word which can be
> corrobrated with dacian "fito" ( could this word maybe be "firo"
> too?). So, if we agree here, we have fito-fetela= firul fetelor,

and

> this is a interesting about "how dacian looked like"., and there is
> too in both words a posposed article.It seems Detcev made some

wrong

> assumptions. I guess, the dacian language was a "bridge" betwen
> italic and slavic languages. We have not to forget that the dacians
> where the people among italic tribes and slavs at the time as the
> slavs begun to move. So, it seems probably that the slavs got a lot
> from dacians and the south slavs which intermingled with the south
> danubian dacians and in time, asimilated these south dacians,

formed

> the new languages which have such big differences with the rest of
> slavic languages, but in the same time has so much in commun with
> romanian and albanian. The romanic linguists give no importance to
> postposed article, affirming that in late vulgate latin was normal

to

> say "ille loccum or locum ille". Why the eastern "romanized"
> population prefered in this case to use "locum ille" instead of

ille

> loccum" remains a mystery. And we have to keep in mind that beside
> dalmatian language , these easter romanised peoples, were just one
> folk.. the dacians..:))
>
> best regards
>
> a. moeller

Hot stuff!
As for your presumed Dacian postponed masc.(?) article -o, cf. in
Busbecq's list of Crimean Gothic words:
Rinck sive Ringo : Annulus

http://titus.fkidg1.uni-
frankfurt.de/texte/etcs/germ/got/krimgot/krimg004.htm

http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/gothmod.htm

This guy

http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/gothmodgramm.htm

tries to interpret that as meaning Crimean Gothic had a postponed
article (masc. -o).

Since I'm trying to trace the trail of some very human "Wodan" and
his wildes Heer, raging army, I'm trying to find whatever remains I
can of a postponed article in "Thuringian". This makes very little
sense since 1) the Thuringians were wiped out first by the Saxons,
then by the Franks, and 2) the Saxon-Thuringian "Kanzleisprache"
became later the model for Standard High German, so I'd have to look
for something which occurs in Standard German, but is missing in the
dialects, a difficult task. But one example might be found in <Friede
auf Erden> "peace on earth", with the old "weak" inflection, used in
other languages to indicate definiteness, vs. <Friede auf der Erde>.
Cf Danish <fred på jorden> "peace on the earth" vs <fred på
jord> "peace on earth".

It just occurred to me that this corresponds exactly to what we see
in Latin nom. -o:, oblique -on-. Cf. Miguel's posting.

Torsten