Re: obscure languages - Kaskian, Hattic,

From: tgpedersen
Message: 14166
Date: 2002-07-27

--- In cybalist@..., "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...> wrote:
> Geoff would appear to be in a huff because I don't take everything
> says at face value... Oh well, a chaqu'un son gout. It doesn't mean
> that I'm not listening.
> >The astronomical argument is rather long, I'll save that for
> >posting. It hasn't escaped my attention that the bull word, Taurus,
> >etc, is shared between IE and AfroAsiatic only. Was it borrowed at
> >the same time as the star-word, as the name of the zodiacal bull?
> It would seem that *Tawru- and *`aTtar- are reconstructed for Proto-
> Since Proto-Semitic must surely have occured some time before the
> of Assyrian, it is reasonable to conclude that the transfer of these
> mythological themes across the Middle-East was well underway even in
> prehistory.
> I don't doubt that there continued to be successive spreads of new
> from different directions however even earlier Sumerian mythology
has some
> themes that exist in other traditions in the north. I'm not one to
> that
> everything originated with the Proto-Sumerians however. Rather it
would seem
> that the Eastern Mediterranean was a large centre of trade in the
> and the real source for this common mythology.
> As far as I know, the bull was a symbol associated originally with
the moon
> since bull horns look like a crescent moon in both shape and colour
> the sometimes-accompanying "double axe" being the sun). Later we
read of
> "The Bull of Heaven" in Sumerian mythology and there become many
deities in
> other traditions that are associated with horns (like Egyptian
> As for the origin of the word, I feel that Semitic *Tawru- is a
> borrowed
> from elsewhere. I've suggested that it came from Proto-Hattic *Launu
> (Hattic /taru/ "storm god") with an initial lateral fricative,
providing the
> seed for the "lion" word as well.
> I feel that the word *`aTtar- was adopted a little later (c.5000
> via Tyrrhenian *xastora which was in turn borrowed from Late Mid
> IndoEuropean *xëhëstérë (> *xsté:r) before syncope took place. The
> is derived from *xëh- (> *xah-) "to burn, glow". The word would have
> originally signified both Venus (the morning/evening star) and the
> goddess herself. A subsequent semantic shift caused IE *xsté:r to
> simply any "star". I suspect that the Egyptian name of Hathor is
also the
> product of borrowing via Tyrrhenian but it then would appear that
it has
> been cleverly reanalysed in native terms as "Horus' house".
> Is this satisfactory?
> - gLeN


But I've noted that I, for other reasons, have come up with up the
same division of the "star" word into two morphemes as you did using
also the Austric stuff you so detest. In this analysis the morpheme
*ter- itself would originally mean "star".

BTW, assuming that the constellations were defined at a time where
Taurus played a major role, is there a get either way from your
Hattic /taru/ to a star word /ter-/?