Re: IRMIN

From: tgpedersen
Message: 13788
Date: 2002-06-05

--- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
>
> Around 100 BCE the Alans defeated the Tauri on the Crimea, a people
> of pirates, last remnants of the Cimmerians.
>
> So, perhaps one can set up a chronology:
>
> 160 BCE War and subsequent alliance between the A:s and the Van
> people.
>
> 100 BCE For one Iranic-speaking (?) subtribe life at the Sea of
Azov
> becomes unpleasant.
>
> 60BCE They set up camp in Thuringia as *erman-e-tu:r > <Hermundur->
> (in my best Tauric, assuming this was an Iranic language) "Tu:r
> followers", which name, translated into Germanic, becomes <Tu:r-ing-
>.
>
> 0 BCE? They move on to Scandinavia
>
>
>
> Torsten

Found a site with interesting migrations to supplment my chronology:

http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/ee/msr/Ethno/ethno4.html

"
years:
-100 400 A Hermunduri G Thuringia Oldest seats of these L
people are found between the
Thuringian Forest, the Ore Mts,
the Harz, & the Black Elster R.
Area of settlement proper lay N of
line from Eisenach to Dresden.

The former Suebi. End date acc/to (195-3).

-25 25 A Hermunduri G N Bohemia L

Approximate dates.

-3 260 N Hermunduri G Main R area N of Gunzenhausen & NW L
of Regensberg and E of Walduern,
Jagsthausen, Mainhardt, &
Murrhardt, D.

S branch of tribe. Origin in dispute. Start date acc/to
(186-2). See also Abb 4, p.48 in ref 183.




-350 -200 A Tauri U Crimea (ancient Taurida) L

Indigenous (pre-Indoeuropean?) tribe. Become Tauro-Scythae.

-250 1 N Taurisci K Noricum RP L

Dates conservative bounds. Start date to
conform to (165-81), end date conservative
guess based on this record.

-225 # N Taurisci K Telamon (modern Talamone) A
(Tuscany, I)

From Alps. (Ref says from Gaul.
Unsubstantiated.) Part of tribe
annihilated by Romans.(Syn. Teurisci.)

-225 # A Taurisci K Area from L Balaton to SW Pannonia Q
RP

From Noricum (later RP). Part of tribe.

-225 200 A Taurisci K {Area from L Balaton to SW L
Pannonia RP} *{165-81}*

Start date for consistency with (165-81).
End date from this record.

-100 # A Taurisci K NE tip of N H, see map Q

From Pannonia RP *{110-31}*

-200 -100 A Tauro-Scythae U Crimea (ancient Taurida) L

Formed by the amalgamation of Scythians &
Tauri. (See records 234-36, 234-37).


200 300 A Teuriochaemae K Thueringerwald region, betw Saale L
& Werra RR, SW DDR.
At time of Roman Empire at greatest
extent; Munch thinks they are synonymous
with Teurii & Taurisci.





400 # A Thuringians G NL Q

From Mid Elbe R, Saale R area & N of
Danube R. Thuringians' area greater than
modern Thuringia. Limits: In S, N of
Danube R. In Main R area betw Thuringian
Forest & Wuerzburg borders area of the
Alamanni. In NE up to Elbe R & in N up
to Ohre R & Kolbitz-Letzlinger Heide
(heath). Toward W & NW border is
indefinite. *{195-3}* Some Thuringians
were moved to NL under Roman auspices.
Date set at 400 AD to conform to name
change from Hermunduri to Thuringians.

400 451 A Thuringians G Mid Elbe R, Saale R area & N of L
Danube R. Thuringians' area
greater than modern Thuringia.
Limits: In S, N of Danube R. In
Main R area betw Thuringian Forest
& Wuerzburg borders area of the
Alamanni. In NE up to Elbe R & in
N up to Ohre
R & Kolbitz-Letzlinger Heide.(heath).
Toward W & NW border is indefinite.
End date to conform to (12-172). Believed
to be direct descendants of Hermunduri.ยด
Name changed around 400 AD.

451 # N Thuringians G Thuringia In S they settle along E
Naab & Regen RR, pushing aside the
Naristi who lived there then. In
the N they expanded across the
Harz up to Oker and Ohre RR and
absorbed rests of Cherusci &
Harudi.

Former N. Hermunduri. From Mid Elbe R,
Saale R area & N of Danube R. Thuringians'
area greater than modern Thuringia.
Limits: In S, N of Danube R. In Main R
area betw Thuringian Forest & Wuerzburg
borders area of the Alamanni. In NE
up to Elbe R & in N up to Ohre R & Kolbitz-
Letzlinger Heide (heath). Toward W & NW
border is indefinite. *{195-3}*

451 500 A Thuringians G {Thuringia In S they settle along L
Naab & Regen RR, pushing aside the
Naristi who lived there then. In
the N they expanded across the
Harz up to Oker and Ohre RR and
absorbed rests of Cherusci &
Harudi.} *{12-172}*

To conform with (12-172) & (12-173).

480 # N Thuringians G Passau (D) A

From Thuringia. (In S they settle along
Naab & Regen RR, pushing aside the Naristi
who lived there then. In the N they
expanded across the Harz up to Oker and
Ohre RR and absorbed rests of Cherusci &
Harudi.) *{12-172}*

500 # A Thuringians G Land betw Werra R, the Thuringian E
Forest, Mulde, Elbe, Ohre, Aller,
Oker RR, and the Kaufunger and
Seulings forests.

From Thuringia. (In S they settle along
Naab & Regen RR, pushing aside the Naristi
who lived there then. In the N they
expanded across the Harz up to Oker and
Ohre RR and absorbed rests of Cherusci &
Harudi.) *{12-172}*

500 750 A Thuringians G {Land betw Werra R, the Thuringian L
Forest, Mulde, Elbe, Ohre, Aller,
Oker RR, and the Kaufunger and
Seulings forests.} *{12-173}*

To conform with (12-173). End date acc/to
(357-5).
"

As to who lived in Thuringia before, and whether those Germanic-
speakers(?) would have known Tur-people:

"

-800 -700 A Turoni K Thuringia L

Start date: guess. End date: to conform to
(27-57).

-700 -650 A Turoni K Touraine (F), Teruel (E) M

From Thuringia *{27-49}* Pushed out by
Germanic tribes. Main population in
Touraine, splinter group in Teruel
(location furnished by (53-18)).

-700 -600 A Turoni K Teruel (E) L

Dates are from this ref, but also to
conform to (27-57) and (27-124).

-700 -50 A Turoni K Touraine, F L

Start date to conform to (27-57). End date
(conservative) suggested by (356-2).

-600 -550 N Turoni K Castilian High Plains W

From Teruel (E) *{53-18}*

-550 -500 A Turoni K Castilian High Plains I

By Belgae.
"

and further

"




-200 -100 A Tyritae U Area just inland from Black Sea, L
betw Dnestr & Kogil'nik RR, S
Moldavia, SU.

Probably Iranian speakers (source?).

"

which should provide some travelog details of what the Tauri were up
to between their stays in the Crimea and in Thuringia.
(and I believe the Cimbri paid them a visit in Crimea on their tour
of Europe? The things they had to tell would have given "Odin"'s
forefathers something to think about.

Torsten