Piotr wrote:
<<Suffice it to say that the forms are unproblematic, since well-known
morphological and phonological processes in Germanic account for their
derivation from *dur- quite satisfactorily. As regards its form, *-duraz
would correspond _exactly_ (as a cognate, not as a loan) to Greek <-thuros>
in compounds.>>
Let me ask you this. If <Hermondoroi> is the result of a Greek word
(-thoroi) being adopted by Germanic speakers and then recorded by Greek
speakers (-doroi) or (maybe a bit later @100AD) by Roman speakers (-duri),
then are you okay with the sounds reflected in those names? I'm not talking
about compound formation, just the vowels, assuming the compound can be
worked out?
<<It can't be an occupational term, though: not "porters" or "gatekeepers"
but "having such and such gates" (as in Gk. ditHuros, Lat. biforis ~
biforus 'having two doors' or athuros 'having no gate, open'),...>>
No, I'm sorry, my fault. Although I think <thuro:roi>, porter, gatekeeper
makes sense, I don't think its necessary. <<Thora>> in Greek did not just
mean door, it meant access to what was within. It meant literally "the
court" of kings and the wealth of rich people and other desirable things,
that is, ACCESS to those things. Aristotle writes about the wise being in
the doors of the rich: "tous sophous gar ephê horan epi tais tôn plousiôn
thurais diatribontas..." meaning having access to them. If <athuros> means
"the unchecked", then <thuroi> would mean those with access, those who go
through the door. The best translation would be insider, as in "insider
trading." If we must be literal, translate <-doroi> as "doormen."
But the best translation would be "those at (with access to) the gates at the
border."
<<...depending on how we interpret the first part of the compound. (if you
want a loan from Greek, <hermo:n> won't do, since the first part of
<X-tHuros> must be the composition form of a stem, not an inflected word).>>
But some Greek compounds don't work that way, especially when they are in the
process of moving from two words to one. Both Hermuaedoeon and Hermou
aidoion, Hermubotane and Hermou botane:, Hermo:n glupheus and Hermoglupheus
are all apparently attested. I suspect that <Hermo:n duroi> could have been
in the middle of that process when it got frozen in translation.
But maybe that -n- then is the problem. Here's something that might make
sense.
There were at least two famous Greeks named Hermodoros (amazing, isn't it,
how close the rich language of the Greeks can come?) One was a pupil of
Plato, the other an architect working for the Romans -- both I think preceded
the time of the Hermunduri/Hermondoroi, one for sure.
If the second part of Hermodorus is -odorus, then what could that mean in
that particularly close name? The answer I've been given is <hodouros>,
conductor, escort, guide (L-S says also waylayer and gives <hodoureo:> which
meant "keep, watch of the roads.") Apparently the thinking is that Hermodorus
as a Greek name meant "conducted or escorted by Hermes." Which in a figurat
ive way might mean nothing more than that you are allowed to get pass the
border guards and through the gates. Like a passport.
<<Now, a fresh thought: what about those 540 doors of Valhalla in the Norse
tradition? (if I remember aright, 800 men could march in abreast through each
of them). Weren't they ermen?>>
That's one problem with finding the meaning of a word based on the meaning of
roughly the same word 1000 years later. Imagine what we would think the
Franks were if we only had french fries, french kiss and french toast to go
by?
But let's look. "ermen" equals immensus. "Mensus" means measure, in one
case, "to measure a distance, i. e. to pass, walk, or sail through or over,
to traverse..." Immensus literally means "immeasurable". One synonym is
"interminatus" (boundless), i.e., with no borders and therefore beyond
measure. Also "infinitus" - without termination.
So, if those ermen were "immensus", meaning boundlessly large beyond measure
or boundlessly fat beyond measure, they should not be able to get through the
doors. Maybe the same would be true if there egos were that immeasurable,
too.
But probably a better explanation is that they were "unbounded", free men.
Which means that they could travel where they wanted. Unlike those who were
not permitted to, because of their social status. Like the pagani who were
not allowed through the gates, unlike the Roman civitas, who had the "freedom
of the city" - what the Hermunduri also had, in the days before civitas was
granted wholesale.
In that case all those vikingr could walk right in, no matter how "vast"
their waist lines were.
Steve