Re: [tied] The Advantages of IE

From: george knysh
Message: 13334
Date: 2002-04-18

--- x99lynx@... wrote:

>
> The power of early IE may have been in carrying
> concepts that were not
> available in the myriad of local languages that may
> have dotted the
> mesolithic landscape (in the manner of a New Guinean
> scenario). And because
> these concepts were not merely lexical, it might
> have been a lot easier to
> learn the new language than invent a whole body of
> analogous terminology in a
> local tongue or just borrow a lot of words.
>
> This idea is particularly relevant when one
> considers one thing that happend
> when food production (versus food gathering) was
> introduced into Europe. And
> that was the creation of markets.
>
> There is very little evidence of trade in mesolithic
> Europe. There is really
> no evidence of surpluses or food storage.
>
> But once the neolithic arrives, we begin to see the
> long distance movement of
> materials and products, and the arrival of clear
> indications of storage
> (e.g., LBK vats and grain-storing pottery.) Even
> remaining mesolithic
> settlement locations shift towards neolithic areas.
> Cattle bones appear in
> mesolithic areas apparently before cattle are being
> raised there. Trade is
> everywhere. Which means that communication was
> occuring on a regular basis
> between a wide range of a continent and a half of
> isolated groups of former
> hunter/gatherers who had little economic need to
> understand each other in the
> previous 5000 odd years of mesolithic life.
>
> The coming of food production -- dirt farming and
> animal breeding -- was a
> gigantic change in the way humans lived and how they
> lived with one another.
> Not until modern times would language carry so much
> new and revolutionary
> information. And not until modern times would there
> be such a strong need
> for a common language.
>
> Steve

******GK: Let's not get TOO anachronistic here.
Certainly under certain circumstances and for certain
populations (particularly such as lived in intermixed
fashion or contiguity) "economic pressure" played a
role in the adoption of a language not originally
their own. I agree that some (possibly a lot)of the IE
spread more than likely occurred in this way. But
there are limitations to this process, and we can
almost certainly postulate these as existing from the
beginning. Contact between Uralians and IE did not
result in a massive changeover of the former to the
speech of the latter. The proto-Basques didn't switch
either. I don't believe that the language of LBK was
IE, but whatever it was, I don't seee the LBK speech
as necessarily being adopted by the mesolithic
communities to the north which became the backbone of
later neolithic cultures there (we already talked
about this a while back in connection with some recent
articles by Polish archaeologists). As far as
intercontinental "trade" is concerned, I don't think
we need to imagine a situation in 4000 BC which
differed fundamentally from the one described by
Herodotus in ca. 450 BC when talking about the route
from the Scythians to the Argippaei (i.e. from the
Black Sea to somewhere in Central Asia): "The
Scythians who penetrate as far as this do their
business through interpreters in seven
languages."*****



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