The city of Ur was actually located west of the
lower Euphrates, not between the rivers, and wasn't any more "watery" than other
cities of that region. It was closer to the sea than it is now, as the coastline
has advanced locally since 3000 BC, but it wasn't actually coastal either. I
don't know if its name has a convincing etymology, but the chances of its having
anything to do with the other words you mention are practically
nil.
Basque ur 'water' (in compounds usually
<u->) is a genuinely ancient word, but its relation to anything outside
Basque can only be a matter of speculation at present.
Lat. u:ri:na is possibly derived from PIE
*weh1-r- 'moisture, water' (> *we:r-, *wo:r-, *u:r- in the daughter
languages). The word <urbs> is unrelated to it; the exact etymology
is still debated, but most experts agree that it represents one of the IE words
for 'hill-fort'.
German ur- 'proto-' is basically the same word as
<aus> or English <out>; it comes from PIE *ud ~ *u:d 'out of', which
had an extended variant: *ud-s > *us- > PGmc. uz- > German ur-. I think
the final *-d is ultimately identical with the PIE ablative ending; anyway, the
word is an IE adverb/preposition and has nothing to do with water. I think
<urbar> meant simply 'cleared out', hence '(newly established) landed
property', and that the word contains <ur-> plus <bar>
'bare' = 'initially bare'. I haven't checked it up, though, so I can't swear
that this etymology is correct. Maybe someone on the list knows a better one. By
the way, the German _suffix_ <-bar> means approximately '-ful' (e.g.
<fruchtbar> 'fruitful'), not '-less'!
I don't know the Malagasy word for 'rain', but
any _visible_ similarity to European words for 'water' or 'rain' can only be
fortuitous. The Javanese word for 'rain' is <udan>, which looks exactly
like the Hittite locative 'in the water'. It might appear to be a perfect
"match"; however, even in languages rather closely related to Javanese the word
looks slightly different (e.g. Malay hujan). It derives from the
Proto-Austronesian word for 'rain', *quzaN (where *z = Eng. "j", and *N is
probably something closer to "l" than to "n") and has nothing to do with the IE
'water' word.
Cheers,
Piotr
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: [tied] Ur - Urina - Urbe - Urbar etc...
Hello, it's my first post on this board, although I'm "monitoring" it
for years. I'm not a linguist just an aficionado and perhaps some of my thoughts
will bother or make you laugh, so, please be nice to me and forgive my
sins.
Ok, what makes me post is the word/stem UR. You surely know words
like summerian "UR"
(city, the city of UR was between the Tigris and Euphrates I think),
latin URINA" (water-urine), basque "UR" (water - water related), IE *UR (to
weaten?), german "URBAR" (adjective describing a piece of land that is suitable
for agriculture, "UR-"
water?, "BAR" without?) and again latin "URBE" (city,
Rome was founded in a swamp area). (I've also read that "UR" in Madagascar means
rain, but I can't verify this. There is also the german particle "UR-" meaning
"very old", but I think that this has nothing to do with the "water" UR. Old as
water?) Well, is there any possibility that these words are related to each
other? Or am I fantasizing?
PS: excuse my poor english.
Greets Jorge