[tied] Re: This Whole Indian Horse Thing [obiter]

From: vishalsagarwal
Message: 13240
Date: 2002-04-14

--- In cybalist@..., george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> *****GK: Does this literature advance the issue beyond
> the following comments in Mallory (1989, p.45-46):

VA: It certainly does, to a great extent. See below -

>
> "Vedic hymns commemorate or invoke divine support for
> the destruction of their enemies and the storming of
> their citadels. This is to be accomplished with the
> assistance of their horses and chariots, a technique
> of warfare apparently unknown to the Indus
> civilization... /

VA: The notion that the Indus citadels were 'attacked' by Aryans is
primitive, to say the least. Nobody accepts it now.
We know nothing about warfare in the IVC area because we have not
found any murals or carvings depicting warfare although many major
towns excavated show a 'citadel'. Some have therefore proposed that
the citadels were meant for keeping wild animals away!
As you might know, the latest book on IVC (by Jane MacIntosh:2002) is
actually titled - "Indus - A Peaceful Realm".
A pottery sherd from Early Harappan levels has been unearthed from
Kunal and it shows a chariot with a canopy, according to the
excavator. No other evidence for chariots exists archaeologically in
India till about 280 BCE.
In the RV, the chariot BTW seems to play mostly a ceremonial role,
and is primarily meant for the Gods and for Rajas. Some interpret
even the Hymn VI.75 as reflecting a SYMBOLIC warfare (there is a
learned article on this and on 'gavishti' by S. A. Dange, a noted
Vedicist in India).


...although [the horse] has
> occasionally been recovered from Harappan sites... no
> one would credit the earlier Harappan culture as
> exemplifying the horse-centred culture of the Vedic
> Aryans.../// ...

VA: RV appears horse centric to those who want to see it thus. Horse
and its various synonymns/derivates occur 215 times in the RV,
whereas cow and its related words occur 700 times. Note that the RV
is associated with 10 families of Rishis, ALL of whom were 'Royal
Sages' in the sense that they were associated with ruling elite as
their priests. So it is a HIGHLY elitist document, where the
importance of the horse will doubtlessly get magnified.
Out of the 1028 hymns, only 2 are devoted to the Ashvamedha ritual,
and even these are very late.

If the RV were to have inherited the Horse sacrifice from its IE
background, these rituals would form the core or the text and would
be found in the oldest parts. On the contrary, they are found to
belong to the later layers of RV AND EVEN the Yajurvedic tradition.
For a detailed study of the Vedic Ashvamedha, see

BHAWE Shrikrishna. 1939. Die Yajus' des Asvamedha. Verlag W.
Kohlhammer: Stuttgart


the very character of Indian society
> reflected in the earliest Vedic literature renders it
> highly unlikely that the Indus civilization was the
> product of Indo-Aryans... It is illiterate, non-urban,
> non-maritime, basically uninterested in exchange other
> than that involving cattle, and lacking in any forms
> of political complexity beyond that of a king whose
> primary function seems to be concerned with warfare
> and ritual."******

VA: Let us take these points one by one -

1. POLITICAL COMPLEXITY - We really do not know ANYTHING about the
political complexity of the IVC. In fact we do not know much about
the political organization of IVC as such! For a detailed and a
reasonable study however, see
Ratnagar, Shireen; 1991; Enquiries into the Political Organization of
Harappan Soceity; Ravish Publishers; Pune
There are some recent papers by Possehl and Kenoyer but I will have
to search them before posting the references.
In any case, the RV is not a manual of politics, and for a better
source of information, we are forced to consult the YV and AV
Samhitas, which clearly pre-suppose a complex political set up, and
have coronation rituals et al. This would be odd if these texts are
dated conventionally between 1000-650 BCE as they are by linguists,
because this period does not give any definite proof of monarchies
archaeology. Historically, it is assumed that state formation was at
its nascent stage during the the later part of this period.

2. MARITIME: This is contradicted by many references to the oceans
and ships etc. In any case, this is an argument which cuts both ways.
Some linguists argue that the presence of an oceanic imagery does not
imply maritime trade, while others would give a different meaning to
words like 'samudra' etc. At best, the issue can be said to be
unresolved. The maritime aspect of the IVC is also often exaggerated,
at the expense of overland trade. See the following reference:
CHAKRABARTI, Dileep. 1991. The External Trade of the Indus
Civilization. Munshiram Manoharlal Publishers: Delhi
The 'non-maritime' RV Aryan paradigm is refuted in a recent paper by
R. S.Bisht (Director, Archaeological Survey of India; and also a
Vedic scholar) in the volume
PANDE, G. C. 1999. The Dawn of Indian Civilization.Project of History
of Indian Science, Philosophy and Culture, Centre for Studies in
Civilizations: Delhi

3. NON-URBAN: Indian Subcontinent has NEVER been predominantly Urban,
and it is a fantasy that IVC was predominatly urban. Many of the so
called urban sites were less than a hectare in size and an
overhwleming majority were under 10 hectares and might as well be
temed as villages. In any case, it is commonly held (and Possehl has
now written several papers on this) that the large interstices
between the urban centres were filled with rural population residing
in what we would called rural villages, or by pastoralists. Some
scholars on the other hand (e.g. Bisht mentioned above, and Bhagawan
Singh) clearly read an urban culture in the RV.

4. Pastoral/Urban?
FAIRSERVIS [1997:171] remarks that we cannot treat the IVC as a
predominantly agricultural society –
"Economics: a heavy emphasis upon cattle-raising as a source of
wealth in the Indus core area; minimal sedentary village farming in
that area and significantly a shift to greater importance in regions
such as Gujarat; a goods and service economy created by the polity
which extends to exchanges with non-Harappan people as well as inter-
regional Harappan contacts, which includes the acquisition of luxury
items."
FAIRSERVIS Walter A., Jr. 1997. Views of the Harappans – The
Transitional Years. Pages 167 – 173 in JOSHI Jagat Pati. 1997.Facets
of Indian Civilization, Recent Perspectives – Essays in Honour of
Prof. B. B. Lal. Aryan Books International: New Delhi
The very fact that RV is such an elitist text, would imply that
references to agriculture would be minimal. In the AV, they abound,
and that Samhita is not dated more than 2-3 centuries after RV by
Witzel.
Archaeologically, one actually sees a rise in agricultural activity
post the demise of IVC, Double cropping starts, and many more
varieties of cereals etc,. are attested. Even at Pirak, where some
Linguists would like to see Aryan remnants, we actually see Rice
appear suddenly, and double cropping begin.
This is completely opposite to what one expects if the Aryans were
pastoral and IVC people were agricultural.

5. LITERACY: The IVC was literate and Indologists now agree to the
consensus that script was not introduced into India before the reign
of Ashoka again. On the other hand, we do not really have lengthy IVC
texts. Steve Farmer, whom all know, actually has started arguing
against the notion that IVC was a literate culture. Anyways, Indian
tradition credits the initiation of the current oral recitation of
Vedas to Veda Vyasa, who is placed at the very end of the Vedic age
(and is scarcely mentioned in the Vedic texts). He forbade the
writing of the Vedas to prevent them from corruption (per a verse in
the Mahabharata) - which, if true, was a wise decision. Texts that
have been transmitted in writing suffer a mutilation every time the
script changes, or a copying scribe makes an error. In contrast, the
transmission of the Vedic Samhitas (RV, YV in particular) has been
very faithful.

So much, in a hurry and in brief. The world has gone around the sun
13 times since Mallory wrote his book.

Vishal