Re: [tied] Proto Romanian Cradle

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 13114
Date: 2002-04-08

I'm sure you know your mother. You certainly know both your grandmothers as well, and some or all of your great-grandmothers. But do you know any of your ancestors back in the second century, or even, say, three hundred years ago? Why do the Albanians/Romanians (actually, not _all_ Albanians/Romanians) believe that they descend from the Illyrians/Dacians? Because they "remember" their descent in any real-world sense? Because their descent is somehow documented? Or merely because they have been told so? Who told them so? On what grounds? Was it solid evidence or just wishful thinking? I'd say that the results of linguistic research are more objective and therefore preferable to this kind of hearsay "evidence".
 
All nations have their myths, and the origins myth is often particularly important to them. People treat is as a very deep element of their identity and react very strongly if anybody questions it (often because it has always been questioned by their traditional foes). National myths are invoked to justify various historical claims, and provide people with a "glorious past" (which may be a comfort in less glorious times).
 
When it was brilliantly demonstrated, back in 1770, that Hungarian was related to Finnish and Saami, many Hungarian intellectuals were deeply offended or even patriotically enraged rather than applaud János Sajnovics's genius (of which they had every reason to be proud as his compatriots). It took a long time for them to come to terms with the truth, but there are still some self-styled "linguists" who reject Finno-Ugric and prefer to litter the Internet with demonstrations of Hungarian being a descendant of Sumerian. For some people the desire to have a glorious past is apparently stronger than reason. I don't want to insinuate that the hypothesised connection between Illyrian and Albanian, or Dacian Latin and Romanian is equally nonsensical. It isn't; it's just less likely, in _my_ opinion, than some alternative hypotheses -- those that I have presented here. I am only trying to say that popular beliefs are not reliable historical evidence. "Vox populi, vox dei" in politics, perhaps, but not in science.
 
Piotr
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: altamix
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Proto Romanian Cradle

Piotr, somehow i do not understang a thing. The albanians claim to be the old illirians, the romanians claim to be the old dacians. For both of then, these claims are refutted by "lingvists". Dont you think they are more right as a lingvist? I mean, I dont need you to tell me who my mother is, I must know it normally. I guess here is something else. There are some lingvistics presumptions and rules who will need to be changed as prooved to be
wrong. And maybe this is the reason why some people want to hardly to deny to the bothd folks what they pretend to be:))