Re: Proto Romanian Cradle

From: altamix
Message: 13103
Date: 2002-04-08

[Steve]
> I suspect basic interest in the "continuity" of Romanian issue for
most of us
> starts because a Romance language is being spoken in a place where
it is kind
> of unexpected.
[moeller]
we unexpected Steve? just because between latin mass and romanian
are now the slavs? take the eraser how I asaid in another mail and
compare for yourself. There is nothing strange.Every thing has an end
and a begin. It happens that Dacia is the end of the latin speaking
population. So , it become not at all unexpected anymore.

[Steve]
> And language is the basic reason that the "Dacian" explanation for
Romanian
> doesn't feel right. Dacian wasn't a Romance language, was it?
[moeller]
no it was not. It was a dialect of the balcan language even how latin
was.


[steve]
>
> The vestigal Roman Empire province explanation doesn't feel exactly
right
> either, because the Roman Empire was all over the Balkans and
Greece and no
> Romance languages are spoken there today, aside from some Romanian
dialects,
> I suppose. And the Romans did not occupy what we now call Romania
for very
> long, compared to a lot of other places. (Even if Roman influence
was there
> before it was a province, that could also be said of a lot of
places that did
> not end up speaking Romance.)

[moeller]
Yeap. there is less as 164 Years if we consider that the big
withdrawall was at 118 as the army was took back by Hadrian

[Steve]

> Considering all the places the Roman Empire was, only a relatively
small part
> of that area now speaks Romance. One explanation offered by some
historians
> for why French and Spanish speakers speak Romance is that there was
a lot of
> immigration out of Italy to those areas. Whether that's true or
not, it is
> certainly not blindingly obvious why even those languages evolved.
>
> Now what's key for me in suspecting some kind of a later migration
from the
> south is that a significant group of Latin speakers north of the
Danube
> should have attracted some attention in the days when Byzantium was
having
> regular difficulties up there and a lot of observations were being
made about
> who was up there. I don't know that there were no arguable
references made
> to Romance speakers north of the Danube in the period from say 400-
800 BC. I
> don't know if, e.g., any Arab travellers noted such things
either. But I
> haven't seen such references. If there are such references, they
might make
> the whole idea of an earlier Romance presence in post-Roman Dacia
seem more
> inviting.

[Moeller]

how does it komme you forget Kekaumenos Steve? But as I argumented
with Kekaumenos someone told me " the people iditified to be in
Dacia, and not the Dacians" ...well kinda interpretaion, huh?:-))


[Steve]
>
> I also would have expected Latin speakers up there to maintain some
kind of
> correspondence or trade with Byzantium. (I'm not clear about the
> re-emergence of Greek in the south and how it affected folks who
were Latin
> speakers and what they did about it, which might also be relevant.)
>
> Another thing that bothers me is how the Balkans got their name.
The name to
> me looks like another form of vlakh, blac-, walha, wallach, etc.,
all with
> the implication of Romance speaker. How old is it? Where did it
come from?
[Moeller]

balcans got their actually name from the turks. balcans= forestly
mountains.


[Steve:]
>
> Finally, I don't understand how a later migration of Romance
speakers or even
> being "shepherds of the Romans" is any less cool than being ex-
Dacians.
> Linguistically, speaking a language descended from the language of
Cicero and
> Caesar is pret-ty cool. If languages carry "prestige," you can't
get any
> more prestigious than that, however it happened.
>
> Steve Long

[Moeller]

i dont think if something is cool or not.Even from dacians or from
romans, no matter whose descendents the rumanians are, they have to
be proud of it.
I guess the question here is to put the right "%" .And for me it
seems the dacians are the big percent of that folk.

Best Regards

A. Moeller