Re: Proto Romanian Cradle

[Steve]

> I suspect basic interest in the "continuity" of Romanian issue for

most of us

> starts because a Romance language is being spoken in a place where

it is kind

> of unexpected.

[moeller]
we unexpected Steve? just because between latin mass and romanian
are now the slavs? take the eraser how I asaid in another mail and
compare for yourself. There is nothing strange.Every thing has an end
and a begin. It happens that Dacia is the end of the latin speaking
population. So , it become not at all unexpected anymore.

[Steve]

> And language is the basic reason that the "Dacian" explanation for

Romanian

> doesn't feel right. Dacian wasn't a Romance language, was it?

[moeller]
no it was not. It was a dialect of the balcan language even how latin
was.


[steve]

>
> The vestigal Roman Empire province explanation doesn't feel exactly

right

> either, because the Roman Empire was all over the Balkans and

Greece and no

> Romance languages are spoken there today, aside from some Romanian

dialects,

> I suppose. And the Romans did not occupy what we now call Romania

for very

> long, compared to a lot of other places. (Even if Roman influence

was there

> before it was a province, that could also be said of a lot of

places that did

> not end up speaking Romance.)

[moeller]
Yeap. there is less as 164 Years if we consider that the big
withdrawall was at 118 as the army was took back by Hadrian

[Steve]

> Considering all the places the Roman Empire was, only a relatively

small part

> of that area now speaks Romance. One explanation offered by some

historians

> for why French and Spanish speakers speak Romance is that there was

a lot of

> immigration out of Italy to those areas. Whether that's true or

not, it is

> certainly not blindingly obvious why even those languages evolved.
>
> Now what's key for me in suspecting some kind of a later migration

from the

> south is that a significant group of Latin speakers north of the

Danube

> should have attracted some attention in the days when Byzantium was

having

> regular difficulties up there and a lot of observations were being

made about

> who was up there. I don't know that there were no arguable

references made

> to Romance speakers north of the Danube in the period from say 400-

800 BC. I

> don't know if, e.g., any Arab travellers noted such things

either. But I

> haven't seen such references. If there are such references, they

might make

> the whole idea of an earlier Romance presence in post-Roman Dacia

seem more

> inviting.

[Moeller]

how does it komme you forget Kekaumenos Steve? But as I argumented
with Kekaumenos someone told me " the people iditified to be in
Dacia, and not the Dacians" ...well kinda interpretaion, huh?:-))


[Steve]

>
> I also would have expected Latin speakers up there to maintain some

kind of

> correspondence or trade with Byzantium. (I'm not clear about the
> re-emergence of Greek in the south and how it affected folks who

were Latin

> speakers and what they did about it, which might also be relevant.)
>
> Another thing that bothers me is how the Balkans got their name.

The name to

> me looks like another form of vlakh, blac-, walha, wallach, etc.,

all with

> the implication of Romance speaker. How old is it? Where did it

come from?
[Moeller]

balcans got their actually name from the turks. balcans= forestly
mountains.


[Steve:]

>
> Finally, I don't understand how a later migration of Romance

speakers or even

> being "shepherds of the Romans" is any less cool than being ex-

Dacians.

> Linguistically, speaking a language descended from the language of

Cicero and

> Caesar is pret-ty cool. If languages carry "prestige," you can't

get any

> more prestigious than that, however it happened.
>
> Steve Long

[Moeller]

i dont think if something is cool or not.Even from dacians or from
romans, no matter whose descendents the rumanians are, they have to
be proud of it.
I guess the question here is to put the right "%" .And for me it
seems the dacians are the big percent of that folk.

Best Regards

A. Moeller