Please see below -
----Original Message Follows----
From:
naga_ganesan@...
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:56:26 +0200
In about 100 years over a wide area (10,000 sq. miles),
1000s of Indus era seals have been found. None of them
depict any horse, and no horse equipment or remains
have been found from the mature Harappan period.
VA replies: None is discovered even later for several centuries
except in Swat, Pirak and a few other peripheral sites (or in
Megalithic burials in Deccan which are not linked with Aryans except
by Parpola). A lot of horse equipment was invented several
centuries later, and the briddle is not attested archaeologically in
Indian
perhaps till 300 B.C. Hence the above argument is non sequitur.
As for horse remains, they are reported in recent publications (of
which
Professor Witzel seems to be unaware) on Mature Harappan sites -
Shikarpur,
Malwan (both in Gujarat). Kuntasi has reported horse remains even in
pre-Harappan levels. Horse terracottas have been reported from Mature
Harappan levels at Rakhigarhi, Nausharo (the report by Jarrige is
unpublished but available to Indian archaeologists), Lothal...The
report on
Malvan is co-authored by F. Allchin, who accepts the identifications.
Many
of the above reports are authored by P. K. Thomas, who being a
Christian,
can hardly be accused of Hindutva agendas. The Kuntasi report is
accepted by
M. K. Dhavalikar as well, and actually has a Japanese as its co-
author!!
The presence of horse at Mahagara (Uttar Pradesh) in the 4th
millennium BCE
is acknowledged even by the Marxist archaeologist D. Mandal. Earlier,
the
dates of the site were disputed (see for instance a footnote in
Meadow:1997
cited in Witzel's latest rejoinder), but subsequent retesting has
confirmed
the older dates (see works of Chakrabarti etc. for results of these C-
14
retests).
I will not even mention the findings at Rupar, Kalibangan, Mohenjo-
daro,
Harappa, Surkotda... which are unnecessarily disputed by Meadow
without
assigning any cogent reason.
Note that of the approx 1014 MATURE Harappan sites, ONLY 98 have been
excavated/are being excavated (according to Possehl:99). And even
this 98 figure includes dozens of
Saurashtran sites where the cultural was very pastoral and
rudimentary in nature (and
pastoralists in present Indian political boundaries are not exactly
known to
rear horses, with an exception here and there. Certainly not in
Gujarat,
where there is still a large pastoral population of very ancient
origins).
The onager was widely distributed in the IVC area. How come it is not
depicted in the seals? There are about 4500 seals known from IVC, of
which 80% come from only two places, and about half have a mythical
creature - the Unicorn. Any bones of Unicorn found in the IVC?
There is no archaeological trail of horse bones from Central Asia to
Inda. No horse bones between Bhagwanpura and Gandhara Grave Culture -
i.e., in the entire Saptasindhava region. Surely that should cause
more concern to Vedicists than their fantasy that IVC has not report
horse bones.
*********
NG: The Rg Vedic Aryans' and their use of horses is well
recorded, and the Rgveda is dated to somewhere around 1000 BC.
This puts almost a gap of almost 8 centuries from
the ingression of Aryans into India.
See prof. Michael
Witzel, Harvard university talking about the date of
the Rgveda's first collection to 1000-900 BCE
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0011&L=indology&P=R5692
VA: The date of hymns is DIFFERENT from the date at which they hymns
were
collected. Many of the arguments given by Witzel in the URL cited by
you are
worthless. See the following URL (section III.9) for a different
perspective, and a worthlessness of the Kikkuli treatise in
establishing a
date for RV.
http://www.voi.org/general_inbox/talageri/ejvs/part3.html
***********
NG: Now, the Harappan horse discussion is happening
in The Hindu newspaper, Chennai, India:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/INDOLOGY/message/2021
For The Hindu article URLs:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Har-veda.htm
VA: The article by Witzel justifies using words like 'politicians'
for
Rajaram on the ground that he was offered the ICHR post,. This is
amazing.
Why should Rajaram be tainted because SOMEONE ELSE offers him a post?
Anyways, several days BEFORE Witzel published his article, Rajaram
had
ALREADY DECLINED the appointment offer, but Witzel seems unaware.
Also, I wonder at his 'amusement' on Dr. Nagaswamy's questioning
Witzel's
source of the assertion that horse bones came from 'eroded' layers.
Is
Nagaswamy supposed to know that the Editor of THE HINDU had deleted
these
references (Meadow 1997, 1998) from Witzel's articles.
Also, what do these references really say? I have not read
MEADOW:1998, but
the other one provides NO JUSTIFICATION AT ALL that the horse bones
discovered earlier were from 'eroded' layers.
The citing of the parallel instance of the Camel skeleton is
meaningless.
Its very archaeological context made one suspicious that it could be
intrusion. The camel skeleton was found 'buried' in one of the room
of house
in the middle of the city. Does anyone bury large animals like Camel
in
their homes?
There are two major excavation reports on Harappa, not mentioned by
Witzel or Nagaswamy (Dales/Kenoyer and by a German team). But NONE of
them is as detailed as the ones by Mackay and Marshall. To mention a
recent BOOK by Kenoyer on Indus cities instead does no credit to the
Harvard Professor.
In Indian archaeological circles now, the talk is that Richard Meadow
did
find some bones at Harappa excavations in recent years but he
discarded them
arbitrarily. This is what I heard from a gentleman recently in India.
For whatever this gossip is worth, it does indicate that in India he
is
treated with contempt in academic circles, to some extent.
Witzel's article in general only enhances the prejudice that an
average Indian reader has, viz. 'Western Indologists have no respect
for our culture
and are racists. '. Unless Witzels start treating Indian
authors with some respect, and stop using abusive language, I would
not
counter such prejudices, which are, as you are well aware, quite
widespread
among the Indian public.
Neither does it add to the stature of his friend, Mr. Meadow, to help
Witzel in penning a further cover up for his earlier abusive
newspaper article.
Vishal