--- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tycho137
> To: cybalist@...
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 1:01 AM
> Subject: [tied] Non-Indo-European Vocabulary in Greek?
>
>
> > ... One pre-Hellenic language may be called the -nthos/-ssos
language, manifest in a variety of place names in southern Greece and
Crete and words like asaminthos (stone bath), terebinthos (a kind of
tree), huakinthos (a kind of flower), olunthos (a kind of fig),
plinthos (brick), minthe: (mint, the plant), kuparissos (cypress
tree), narkissos (a kind of flower), etc.
>
> It is disputable if all the obscure words is <-nth-> and <-ss->/<-
tt-> can be lumped together as coming from the same language, though
many are likely to be substratal. For some of these items a Middle
Eastern source has been suggested (<kuparissos>/<-ittos>, Myc. ku-pa-
ri-se-ya, cf. Akk. giparu; more speculatively <asaminthos> and
<labyrinthos>). At any rate, those that show intervocalic <-s->
(<asaminthos>) must have been borrowed after the change *-s- > *-h-
(> zero) within Greek. As <-ss->/<-tt-> may result from various Greek
palatalisations (*-tj-, *-tw-, *-tHj-, *-kj-, *-kHj-, *-kWj-, *-kWHj-
), there are in each case many possibilities worth exploring before
we fall back on "substratal <-ss->".
>
> > ... I note the similarity Atho:s ~ *Atha:na: (classical
Athe:ne:); this could mean that that deity's name could originally
have been "The Mistress of Mt. Athos".
>
> > I recall doing some work some time ago trying to compare some
Greek vocabulary to some of the forms listed in Diakonov and
Starostin's Hurro-Urartian as a Northeast Caucasian Language and some
of Starostin's work on reconstructing North Caucasian. One
interesting bit was Greek selas (light) and sele:ne: (< *sela:na: --
Moon, literally, "shiner"); that book claimed that there were more
such words to be found. ...
>
> They are of diverse origin and can't be reduced to a single
formative principle: <atHe:ne:> reflects earlier <atHa:naia:>
(whatever its remoter history), whereas <sele:ne:> (<sela:na:>,
<selanna:>) is a transparent derivative of <selas> via adjectival
*selas-na:, the feminine of *selas-no- 'bright' (not an agent noun!,
cf. <kleinos>/<kleennos> 'famous' from *klewes-no-). Several Greek
pairs in -as/-e:no- (*-as-no-) have impeccable IE etymologies.
>
> Piotr
Dear Piotr/tycho
Hope this is not totally out of line.
In april last year I went to Crete for a vacation, and visited during
my stay (among others) the Rethymnon Archaeological Museum. In this
museum I found a stone fragment which I found particularly
interesting. The fragment seemed to be a part of a stele with
original writing above, below, as well as on the right and left side
of the remaining inscription. Only small parts of these edge remains
of letters were visible. I had (of course) left my camera in the
hotel, and therefore made a copy of the text with pen on paper. The
letters on the fragment were intact, clear and easy to read and
written left to right.
Due to time pressure I had to concentrate on the horizontal order.
Vertical order between the letters is not quite correct, I'm afraid.
What makes me curious about it, is that:
It is excavated in Crete
It is written left to right.
It has some resemblance with etruscan alphabet and the Lemnos Stele
It contains letters that came in use much later than 7th century BC,
like the R.
Then again, some of the letters belong to the archaic period (?),
like the O and the H
It is important to note that I am an absolute amateur in this field.
In other words, what confuses me, may be crystal clear to the
professionals. I hope I have not wasted your time.
It was very little information on this relic in the museum exhibition:
7th century BC, Archaic period, found at Elutherna. No photograph.
Not published.
Just to be sure, I asked for a museum catalogue, but obviously no
such exists. (The museum was established 1991.) I also tried to get
information from the museum personnel about this artifact, but with
no result. When doing this, the museum closed for the day, and that
was it.
It would be interesting to hear your opinion on this.
Please also read message 9841
The copy of the inscription will be sent in a separate mail.
Regards Morten