Re: [tied] Slavic voda

----- Original Message -----

From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 9:12 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] Slavic voda

> Well, Lith. N. óbuolos, Latv. âbuols point to a paradigm *h2ábo:l(s), *h2bél-os ~ *h2b-l-ós, which would have given Slavic *a:ba:l- / *obl-.

 

Well, neither is attested in Slavic, so one must again resort to a "compromise" theory, which is always an embarrassment. Without liquid blocking, *h2bl- > *abl- > *a:bl- follows straightforwardly. Note that using the same kind of reasoning you explain a long vowel in a putative length-blocking environment and a short vowel in a non-blocking context. This is excessive explanatory power -- it immunises the liquid blocking theory against falsification, since any counterexample can be explained away.

> There are numerous examples of Winter's law being blocked by a following sonorant ("Winter's Law of Balto-Slavic lengthening", Jens E. Rasmussen (1992) gives: La. agns, Li. ugnìs, Sl. ognI "fire"; La. ùogle, Sl. o~glI "coal"; Li. gie~dras, gaidrùs "heiter"; La. idrs "mouldering"; Li. lùgnas "biegsam"; Li. sla~bnas "kraftlos"; Li. vìglas "rührig"; Sl. dUbrU "abyss"; BS *pigrás "lazy".  The last two have in Lith. been replaced with r-less forms, that still lack Winter's lengthening (dubùs, pigùs).

 

As regards fire and water, my hunch is that the nasal may play a role. Lat. ignis justifies *(H)ng-n-i-, which might have developed into BSl *ungni- (dissimilated into <ugnis> in Lithuanian) and Slavic *UngnI > *o~gnI > ognI (independent dssimilation). Baltic shows the nasalised variant *und-/*wand- of 'water'; in Slavic, hypothetically, *wand- > *vo~d- > *vod- through irregular denasalisation. This is tentative but worth exploring, I think.

> I'm obviously not excused when it comes to lengthenings in the position V(:)DR, which should have been blocked.  I see, at a quick glance, three counter-examples: Sl. agne~ "lamb", Sl. naglU "sudden", and the "otter" word.

 

These are problematic, aren't they?. Note that at least the 'lamb' and 'otter' words are well-established IE items with unambiguous etymologies (as opposed to some of the material above)

>> Isn't Slavic *vedro- related to Gmc. wedra- < *wedHro- 'weather' rather than to 'water'?

> Chernyx (Istoriko-e.timologicheskij slovar') connects it with "water". Are there other examples of *wedhro- outside Germanic?

 

There have been attempts to connect it with *h2weh1-. I remain unconvinced. Let's say that the reconstruction *wedHro- is the least speculative first draft. Even if the word is restricted to Germanic and Slavic (you can add Old Polish wiodro 'hot weather'), the formal match is perfect (even the gender is neuter in both branches) and the semantic agreement is beyond reproach. It is also possible (but unprovable) that Slavic *vedro- is a loan from Germanic. Pace Chernyx, I see no reason at all to relate the Slavic word to "water" instead. If it meant rainy weather ... but it doesn't.

 

Piotr