Re: [tied] Plinius and Tacitus

That is also my view. If we stay with what you have written about these two names in the Baltic things are much clearer.

Unforturnately people still read books like Birger Nerman "Det svenska rikets uppkomst,1925" "Sveriges rikes uppkomst 1941" and "Sveriges första storhetstid 1942"

Birger Nerman wrote very much and had many good ideas but on this subject he went highwild.

Håkon Melberg writes in "Origin of the Scandinavian Nations and Languages" about Nermans books: "his views concerning the early history of his nation lack the character of a scientific hypothesis, namely, that of being in accordance with the facts available."

Melberg points out that in the 6th century there comes an immigrating peple, first noticed by Dr. Bernhard Sahlin, and it is one language in present day Denmark, mainland Sweden and Norway that is called "Dansk tunga".

Melberg further writes: "A rather important issue left untouched by Dr Sahlin was that of the ethnic identity of the conquerors who introduced a new culture and new gods into the Scandinavian countries."

We have on another list have long discussions about Procopius Heruls who arrived in Lake Mälar Area about 512.

This must of course also have influenced the language in those areas.

Tha language spoken by the Goths in the Vistula area and the Gotlanders was probably also spoken in the coastal areas of what is later called Svealand.

With the immigration of the Heruls their language take over in their areas. That is where "Dansk tunga" comes in.

From that time we have the old Gutnish language left on Gotland and the new "Dansk tunga" introduced in Denmark, mainland Sweden and Norway.

Tore

We have discussed it several times; search the list archives. In a nutshell: probably the same root (*gHeud-/*gHoud-/*gHud- > Germanic *giut-/*gaut-/*gut-), different derivatives providing different tribal names (*gut-/*gut-o:n- for the Gutones/Gutthiuda, *gaut-a- for the Geats/Gautar).

Piotr

----- Original Message -----

From: Tore Gannholm

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:48 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] Plinius and Tacitus

Next question is. Where does the word Gutans and Guthiuda come from.

The Gotlanders also take this name. It is obvious that there is a close related culture in the area where we later on find the Goths and in Gotland.

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