Re: [tied] Three Horses revisited

--- Alexander Stolbov <astolbov@...> wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "george knysh" <gknysh@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Three Horses revisited
>
>
> ...
> > Archaeologically it is most
> > tempting (assuming all that has so far been
> assumed)
> > to associate the "o-iri-aspya" with the Srubna
> > culture.
>
>
>(AS) Archaeologically the Srubnaya (Timber Grave)

culture

> leads in the European
> Iron Age to Cimmerians, Meoti and perhaps some
> forest-steppe cultures of
> Middle Donets and Middle Don.

****GK: Indeed. And also to the steppe cultures of the
Lower Dnipro (an important area for Scythian
mythogenesis), which are of the "Zrubna"-type as of
the mid-second millenium BC. The archaeology of this
is extensive and conclusive.******

(AS)It has not been proved

> that any of them was
> formed by an Iranian speaking population. I guess
> they could be Indo-Aryan
> speaking (this would explain a lot in the local
> toponymics and in forming
> the Slavic culture).

*****GK: There is evidence for the Indo-Aryan identity
of the Sinds and Maeotians. And probably for some
groups further West (judging by Herodotus' Hypanis (=
Boh,Bog) and perhaps by Tyras (Dnister). There is the
Artemivs'k pot with what seems to be an Indo-Aryan
inscription etc.. But it is also quite likely that the
Zrubna c. was polyethnic: we have the names of
Cimmerian leaders which are Iranic, and now
"Thri-aspya" as to a probably pre-Scythian and
pre-Cimmerian population. Let's leave the question
open for a bit.****

>
> Anyway Scythians came from the Asian (in modern
> sense) steppes

*****GK: The "Royal" Scythians did. But there was
already something here which Herodotus conventionally
calls "Old Scythia" ["Pre-Scythia" in terms of the
Royals would be more precise], which extended from the
Danube to the Crimean isthmus, clearly to the west of
the territory associated with the Paralata in the 5th
c. BC******

where the

> Andronovo culture was spread during the Late Bronze
> Age. This culture was
> very closely genetically related to the Srubnaya
> culture (the Poltavka
> culture was "the mother" for both of them) but still
> distinguished from it.
>
> Alexander
>
>
>

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