Re: [tied] Three Horses revisited

From: george knysh
Message: 11933
Date: 2001-12-27

--- Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> P.S. Another possibility -- in view of Sanskrit
> names and epithets like <sapta:s'va-> or
> <das'a:s'va-> -- is that *�ri-aspya- is an
> adjectival derivative of the personal name
> *�ri-aspa- '(having) Three Horses', referring to the
> real or mythical founder of a Scythian clan. I don't
> know which solution is more plausible historically
> -- that's up your street, George.
>
> Piotr
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Piotr Gasiorowski
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Another Scythian item
>
>
> More likely, a slightly distorted version of
> *�ri-aspya- 'derived from three horses' --
> presumably a totemic name.
>
*****GK: I think either one of your solutions might
work. Here we have to carefully ponder the
significance of "Three" in IE myth-forming (and
eventually people-forming, structure-forming,
"sovereignty-forming"). A very delicate task. But one
possible scenario, for which I do not claim either
exclusivity or finality, might be this. The variant of
the Scythian Foundation Legend reported by Herodotus
seemed to require "three" brothers. Perhaps because
that is what was "in place" when the Royal Scythians
arrived from the East in the mid- 7th c. BC. What is
speculative is whether these Royal Scythians merely
displaced the Cimmerians in the role of "younger" (and
dominant) brother in the Myth. That this might have
been so may be indicated by the "thousand years"
associated with Targitaos. In any case, either with
the arrival of the R. Scythians or their predecessors,
a "fitting" problem arose, which was "solved" by
making the "second" brother (Arpoxais) the ancestor of
two groups (the as yet undeciphered "Katiari" and the
o-iri-aspya). Prior to the R Sc./Cimm. the system in
place might have been that of the descendants of the
"three sons" of Targitaos: Aukhatae, Katiari, Traspies
(using Herodotus' terms), I'll have to think through
the complications. Archaeologically it is most
tempting (assuming all that has so far been assumed)
to associate the "o-iri-aspya" with the Srubna
culture. If only we could come up with something for
"Katiari"!! We cannot rule out that there was an older
layer of just "two" combinants which was replaced by
"three" when the "o-iri-aspya" (surely Iranic these?)
arrived.=== Do you think there might be any way of
working in "arya" into "Katiari"?******

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