Re: [tied] Scythian Cognates

--- Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

> This, however, would require us to propose a whole
> new IE branch, not closely akin to Iranian, Baltic,
> Slavic or Thracian (at least as we know it), since
> the forms in question are incompatible with the
> sound changes characteristic of those groups.

*****GK: I don't see why mispronunciations (from the
perspective of a posited standard),local dialect
variants, transcription errors et sim. would require
such a radical move. Just focus on one of the words in
question. Is it really that difficult to find a way of
reconciling "oior" with "vir"(or perhaps "uir" in some
lips)? Your suggestion of a distinct IE branch has no
support in the area's historical onomastics. And you
are of course right to point out how little we know
about Thracian (or Thrakoid languages).******


(PG)Of

> course you are free to posit such a new branch, but
> you must call it something else, for Thracian or
> Thracoid it is not.

*****GK:Don't set me up as a straw man here.****

(PG)Don't despise the modern

> "technical reconstructions"; like democracy, they
> may not be perfect, but there's nothing better in
> the reconstructive business.

*****GK: I am hardly doing that. Just pointing out
that you are creating difficulties for yourselves in
demanding more from the evidence than it is capable of
giving within the context of your standardizations. It
would be more interesting, e.g., to have theories
about what could be hidden behind Herodotus' "spu"
"arima" "pata" "oior" etc.. than to state (no doubt
correctly) that these words are not compatible with
certain reconstructed sound changes. If they are
mangled words what might the correct form be? If
Thrakoid, as I suspect on other grounds, I appreciate
the difficulty of the task.*****

(PG)If we are able to talk

> about the IE family and its branches,
> reconstructible PIE, etc., it's thanks to the formal
> discipline that is de rigueur in historical
> linguistics.

*****GK: I have no problem with this statement. But
keep in mind the juridical analogy which constantly
makes room for "equity" side by side with "law".*****

>
> Greetings,
>
> Piotr
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: george knysh
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Scythian Cognates
>
>
> *****GK: The problem here of course is that we know
> next to nothing about the pronunciation system of
> Herodotus' informant(s),or about the dialectical
> peculiarities of the various Scythian speeches. We
> have to do the best we can with what Herodotus has
> recorded for us. Personally, I prefer his witness on
> this specific issue to the technical reconstructions
> of the 21rst century. The challenge here is not to
> reject him as incorrect but to see what might be
> hidden in (or behind) his statement. If that is too
> difficult then we just stay with what's there.
> Season's Greetings to all the "Oior" and "Oioirpata"
> (:=))
>

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