Re: [tied] Rune-essay Mads Peder Nordbo

Hi!
Actually I have never stated that the Heruls immigrated. I have only
suggested it could be the Heruls.
I listed a couple of things that changed life in Lake Mälar area beginning
of the 6th century. It is very difficult to explain theese changes if one
does not accept that a new ruling class that put its mark on society
immigrated.

The only people, accorging to written Roman sources, that we know
immigrated at that time is the Heruls.

If, like some people say on this site, we can't trust Roman written
sources, we don't know which people immigrated to the Lake Mälar area
beginning of the 6th century.
Tore

>Hi,
>On a google-search I came across this essay from Mads Peder Nordbo
>from the South Danish University, and I found it quite interesting.
>I have read Jörgen Chr. Bangs essays before, and it was nice to see
>that he has a co-worker.
>
>He is amog other things exploring further the connection betweeen the
>p-,b-, e-, m- and u-runes.
>There were also some new points about the origin of the p-rune.
>If I may summarize the theory I undrestood it as if there originally
>were only one sound( or the b- and p- sounds were too similar to have
>different runes). Then came a change in the language wich made the p-
>rune necessary.
>The rune was created on the b-rune, where the number of bi-staves
>were kept intact, but two of the staves which in the b-rune points
>inwards were in the p-rune made pointing outwards as a signification
>of the spiration.
>For some reason the rune carvers in scandinavia then switches back to
>write with only th b-rune (cf. the Vadstena bracteate). This Nordbo
>dates to ca 550.
>
><http://www.mpn3.dk/runer.PDF>http://www.mpn3.dk/runer.PDF
><http://www.mpn3.dk/>http://www.mpn3.dk/
>
>Nordbo himself doesn't hawe a theory why this happens, one *could*
>take it that it's because b and p again becomes less dissimilar,
>pehaps even the same.
>I have also noted that the p-rune is not *that* common in the Anglo-
>Saxon futhorc either, even though I'm unsure *how common.
>
>I think I've developed a hypothesis how this would fit with the p/f/b-
>part of Grimms and Verner's law's
>For simplicity I copied a presetation of Verner's law from a web page:
><http://www.cord.edu/faculty/sprunger/e315/grimm.htm>http://www.cord.edu/facult
>y/sprunger/e315/grimm.htm
>*****'
>Verner's Law
>Karl Verner, 1875
>Danish linguist wondered why not every I-E stop changed in the same
>way. His formulation established that Grimm's Law was consistent and
>could account for all known cognate evolution
>
>Intermediate step in Stage 1 shift:
>(1)All voiceless stops changed once:
>
>ph --> f
>
>th --> theta
>
>kh --> h
>
>sh --> s z
>
>
>
>(2)If the sound was in an initial position or immediately after a
>stressed verb, it changed no further.
>(3)Those in other positions changed to voiced spirants (b, d, g)
>*******
>So here it goes:
>I assume that the development of the changes comes from a people
>speaking a language without the p-sound-like e. g. hebrew or arabic-,
>learning words comming from a language with p-sound e. g. any IE-
>language. The result *could* be the changes (1) and (3) above i.e
>that the words are learned, but pronunced alternatively f and b
>depending on initial positions of not.
>Just as the scarcity of the p-rune suggests.
>
>Then I perhaps can make Tore happy.
>What if the total elimination of the p-rune from Vadstena and on is a
>result of another wave of immigrants with this hypothetical original
>language not understanding why there is a p-rune in the alphabet wich
>is (almost) never used? (long sentence).
>Perhaps they even before used the same alphabeth without the p-rune.
>
>If the dating of the Vadstena bracteate is correct at 550,could the
>suggest that the people arriving was the heruls, Tore?
>
>Note, this last part about the Heruls doesn't really belong to my
>theory.
>I'm still highly uncertain on the matter. One reason is ´the
>credability of Jordanes and Prokopius.
>
>Best wishes
>Anders
>
>
>
>
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