Re: [tied] Gerrhus/Gerrhos: a Herodotan Scythian puzzle

There's no need to assume that <desna> is a Baltic name. Reflexes of PIE *dek^s-(i)no- 'right (= not left)' occur throughout the family, _including_ Slavic, as you probably don't realise (OCS desnU 'right', desnica 'right hand'), and Indo-Iranian (Skt. daks.in.a-, Av. das^ina-).

Gerrhos (<gerros>) cannot be anything like *ker-ros for a number of reasons. The vocalism isn't right -- <-os> with a short vowel can hardly be anything else than the masculine thematic ending (cf. Greek Rha <ra:> representing Iranian *raha < *ros-o-), and the odd truncation of *krso- or *krsno- (Slavic c^IrnU, Indo-ryan krs.n.a-) 'black' > *ker- would be inexplicable in terms of IE word-formation. I can't offer a passable etymology off-hand, but I'll think about it.

Piotr

----- Original Message -----
From: george knysh

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:52 PM

Subject: [tied] Gerrhus/Gerrhos: a Herodotan Scythian puzzle

The name Gerrh(u,o)s refers to three things in Herodotus' Scythian excursus: (1) a river; (2) a "spot which goes by the same name"; (3) a member of the most remote and northerly Scythian tribe, among whom their Kings were buried. I wonder what kind of etymology might be possible for "Gerrhus/Gerrhos"? Leaving aside the combination ge-rrhos (which some proposed because Herodotus said that "the country of the Kings" begins "on the other side" of the Gerrhos r.), is there any possible "Iranic" explanation? Also: if the Gerrhus is today's Desna (as many think) would the following make any sense--- given that "desna" refers to "the right (side or direction)" in Baltic, and that Desna would be the Old Baltic name of the river, inherited by Slavic, could Gerrhus/Gerrhos be an alternative name for it from the perspective of those "non-Royal" Scythians whose language was Thrakoid, and who lived west of the Borysthenes/Dnipro? We would need to make a few assumptions. "Black" in Thracian is "kersas" (also in some Baltic speeches?). We would need to assume that in compounded names "kersas" could be abbreviated to "ker". And that this "ker" could be rendered "ger" by Herodotus. Now as to "rrhos/rrhus" we would need to assume that this is the name of the river Ros' (this would not be too big a problem since linguists are prepared to recognize "Ros'" as a very ancient IE hydronym. Today's Ros' would have been so called in Scythian times also. And today's Ros' was located on the territory of the Thrakoid Scythians). So "Gerrhos"= "Kerrhos", viz. the "black" Rhos (i.e. the "northern" Ros') i.e. the Desna. Would this be possible? We know from much later times that the colour "black" was associated with the basin of the Desna. That is where the "Sivera/Siverjani" resided (their name etymologized from the Iranic word for "black") and that is where the city of Chernihiv/Chernigov was located, which also has "black' connotations.