Re: [tied] Old Rus' of the many "nationes"

From: Sergejus Tarasovas
Message: 11464
Date: 2001-11-24

> [Alexander]
> I apologize in advance, if my question looks too naive.
>
> Can not Dnieper/Danaper/Dnepr/Dnipro etc. be hydronymes which
descend from the _Baltic_ form of the river name consisting of 2
parts: Duno~jus + East-Baltic form of the word "water, river"
(something like *apa or *opa ?) ?
> Perhaps, the final "-r" could appear for the first time in the
Germanic (Gothic) version and then spread widely as the most
prestigious form of the word?
>
> Alexander

The whole case is extremely problematic.

Hydronyms like Lith. Duno~jus, Duna~jus are not uncommon, cf. also
appellatives Lith. duno~jus, duna~jus, donajus, danojus, dojone.lis,
du_nave.lis etc, Latv. dun,uva with general meaning 'water body; a
water in some form as a lanscape's element', hardly explainable as
just a borrowing from Slavic *DunajI/DunavI 'Danube'. The latter is
traditionally considered a borrowing from Gothic (unattested)
*Do:nawi < (?) some Celtic form, attested as Da:nuvius in Latin. If
the latter is true, Baltic forms are hardly directly related to the
Danube-hydronym.

The Dnieper is first mentioned in a Greek source in the form
Da'napris. Slavic *DUne^prU hints the first and second vowels
differed in quality: Slavic /U/ < (laxed short)/a/ is attested in
borrowings, cf. ORus LUtIgala < *Latga`la: , /e^/ may be < (open
front) /AE/. Usually something Iranian is offered as a source, the
first component being eventually from *da:nu- 'stream'. If we suppose
the form was Baltic and reconstruct it as *Dane:pr- or *Danja:pr-, we
will get a form that seemes unexplainable on the Baltic ground to me.
We can ignore the Greek form and the -r-, suppose the first component
was Baltic *dun- (consider also Slavic *Dvina, probably of Baltic
origin, though the Balts now call it <*Daugwa: 'mighty'), and then
offer something like *Dun-j-a:p- (involving West_ Baltic *ap- and
postulating its unattested lenghtened grade, the latter and *-j- to
account for Slavic *e^) or just *Dun-ap- (and leave e^ unexplained).
We can also... As you see, all this is extremely speculative.

IFAIK, the Baltic origin of *Dvina and *DUne^prU (<*dun-) was
postulated by Vanagas and supported by Toporov, but I have only a
refernce, not the relevant article itself. If I have time, I'll try
to check it tomorrow.

Sergei