Re: [tied] Old Rus' of the many "nationes"

+ADwAIQ-DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC +ACI--//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN+ACIAPg- HTML+AD4APA-HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV+AD0AIg-Content-Type+ACI- CONTENT+AD0AIg-text/html+ADs- charset+AD0-utf-7+ACIAPg- TITLEMessage/TITLE META content+AD0AIg-MSHTML 6.00.2600.0+ACI- name+AD0-GENERATOR+AD4APA-/HEAD BODY DIV+AD4APA-FONT face+AD0-Tahoma size+AD0-2-----Original Message-----BR+AD4APA-BFrom:/B george knysh +AFs-mailto:gknysh+AEA-yahoo.com+AF0- BR+AD4APA-BSent:/B Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:06 AMBR+AD4APA-BTo:/B cybalist+AEA-yahoogroups.comBR+AD4APA-BSubject:/B Re: +AFs-tied+AF0- Old Rus' of the many +ACI-nationes+ACIAPA-BR+AD4APA-BR+AD4APA-/FONT+AD4APA-TTActually, let me take you up on your offer right away.BRTo clear up something I already mentioned in passing.BRUkrainians have two special +ACI-poetic+ACI- names for theirBRDnipro: SLAVUTA and SLAVUTYCH (sometimes the spellingBRis not SLA- but SLO-). Is this not related to BalticBRroots having to do with flowing streams or rivers, andBRif so, could it not represent an early name for theBRDnipro in its Proto-Baltic, subsequently SlavicizedBRarea? All the major analyses of +ACI-DNIPRO+ACI- +ACI-DNEPR+ACI- seemBRto agree that it is a complex form of the river+-riverBRtype, with one name (BORIS- going back to the GrBRwitness) representing a +ACI-Thracian+ACI- name and -THENES anBRIranic one (specifically pronounced). But sinceBRProto-Balts lived along the river for quite a distanceBRthey surely would have had a name for it also. What doBRyou think?+ACoAKgAqACoAKgA8-BR+AD4APA-BR+AD4APA-SPAN class+AD0-522134207-20112001+AD4APA-FONT face+AD0AIg-Lucida Sans Unicode+ACI- size+AD0-2+AD4AWw-Sergejus Tarasovas+AF0AJg-nbsp+ADs-(The message is uncompromisingly UNICODed in UTF-7, a font like Lucida Sans Unicode is needed. If you have trouble reading it, please let me know and I'll re-post) The absence of any+ACY-nbsp+ADs-direct traces of such a Baltic name for the+ACY-nbsp+ADs-Dnieper is a+ACY-nbsp+ADs-problem+ACY-nbsp+ADs-not solved in today's Baltistics. Until now I+ACY-nbsp+ADs-have been+ACY-nbsp+ADs-aware of the two speculations+ACY-nbsp+ADs-(both being rather shaky, IMO) mentioned in one of my recent messages: 1. the name was +ACo-N+AOg-munas (+ACY-gt+ADs- Lith. Ne+AwM-munas, Belarusian +BB0EUQQ8BDAEPQ- 'Nemen'), later re-applied to today's Neman+ACY-nbsp+ADs-2. the name was +ACo-Dun+AQE-j-, since+ACY-nbsp+ADs-an abstract+ACY-nbsp+ADs-river is often called Dun+APU-jus, Dunoj+ARc-+AwM-lis etc in Lithuanian folklore, but the Danube flows rather far from today's Lithuania and such a close attention asks for its explanation.BR+AD4APA-/FONT+AD4APA-/SPAN+AD4APA-/TT+AD4APA-/DIV DIV+AD4APA-TT+AD4APA-SPAN class+AD0-522134207-20112001+AD4APA-FONT face+AD0AIg-Lucida Sans Unicode+ACI- size+AD0-2I was aware of the Old... uhm... East Slavic alternative name (along with more usual +BBQESgQ9-+BGM-+BD8EQARK- +ACY-lt+ADs- +ACo-D+BEo-n+ARs-pr+BEo-) for the Dnieper, +BCEEOwQ+BDIEQwRCBDgERwRM- +ACY-lt+ADs- +ACo-Slov+Aes-ti+AQ0-+BEw-, since it's mentioned in +BCEEOwQ+BDIEPg- +BD4- +BD8ESgQ7BDoEQw- +BBgEMwQ+BEAENQQy-+BGM-, but wasn't aware of the form +BCEEOwQwBDIEQwRCBDA- +ACY-lt+ADs- +ACoEIQQ7BD4EMgRDBEIEMA- +ACY-lt+ADsAKg-Slov+Aes-ta and didn't know they both have survived in+ACY-nbsp+ADs-Ukrainian (the forms with -a- seem to be of bookish origin, obviously influenced by such+ACY-nbsp+ADs-Ukraino-Russian Church Slavonic spellings+ACY-nbsp+ADs-as+ACY-nbsp+ADsEQQQ7BDAEMg-ja+BD0-+BGM-).BR+AD4APA-/FONT+AD4APA-/SPAN+AD4APA-/TT+AD4APA-/DIV DIV+AD4APA-TT+AD4APA-SPAN class+AD0-522134207-20112001+AD4APA-FONT face+AD0AIg-Lucida Sans Unicode+ACI- size+AD0-2The idea of +ACo-Slov+Aes-ta being a Slavic rendering of the originally Baltic name is ingenious, and +ACoBWg-lau+Ay8--ant-+AQEAJg-nbsp+ADs-'flowing, washing (its banks)' (participle)+ACY-nbsp+ADs-as+ACY-nbsp+ADs-a+ACY-nbsp+ADs-possible Baltic prototype is not only formally impeccable as to its+ACY-nbsp+ADs-structure, but also is continued in an existant hydronym - cf. Lith. river-name +AWA-lavant+AOA-.BRThe only minor problem with this attractive hypothesis would be the fact that such hydronyms as +BCEEOwQ+BDIEQwRCBDA- or +BCEEOwRDBE8- (Smolensk district, +ACY-lt+ADs- Balto-Slavic +ACo-+AVo-lau+Ay8-j+AQE-) well may be properly Slavic, continuing the same verbal root +ACoBWw-leu+Ay8--/+ACoBWw-lou+Ay8-- 'flow, wash' or probably even +ACoBWw-lou+Ay8--/+AVs-l+AWs-- 'be famous', cf. Slavic +ACo-slyti/slov+Aes- 'be famous/am famous'. It's sometimes hard to distinguish something proper Baltic from proper Slavic./FONT+AD4APA-/SPAN+AD4APA-/TT+AD4APA-/DIV DIV+AD4APA-TT+AD4APA-SPAN class+AD0-522134207-20112001+AD4APA-FONT face+AD0AIg-Lucida Sans Unicode+ACI- size+AD0-2While we're at that... There's a Lithuanian river+ACY-nbsp+ADsBYA-lav+ARc-+AwM- (+ACY-lt+ADsAKg-+AVo-lau+Ay8-j+AQE-, thus a direct counterpart of Russian +BCEEOwRDBE8-) with a village +AWA-lav+ARc-+AwE-nai on its banks, the latter being a formally nearly impeccable (except its acute+ACY-nbsp+ADs-accent, a circumflex would probably be nicer) direct counterpart of Slavic self-designation +ACo-Slov+ARs-n+ARs-./FONT+AD4APA-/SPAN+AD4APA-/TT+AD4APA-/DIV DIV+AD4APA-TT+AD4APA-SPAN class+AD0-522134207-20112001+AD4APA-FONT face+AD0AIg-Lucida Sans Unicode+ACI- size+AD0-2+AD4APA-/FONT+AD4APA-/SPAN+AD4APA-/TT+AD4AJg-nbsp+ADsAPA-/DIV DIV+AD4APA-TT+AD4APA-SPAN class+AD0-522134207-20112001+AD4APA-FONT face+AD0AIg-Lucida Sans Unicode+ACI- size+AD0-2Sergei/FONT+AD4APA-/SPAN+AD4APA-/TT+AD4APA-/DIV+AD4APA-/BODY+AD4APA-/HTML