From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 10908
Date: 2001-11-02
----- Original Message -----
From: Sergejus Tarasovas <S.Tarasovas@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:14 PM
Subject: [tied] Slavic hawk-word
> --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> > The "majority view" is that *asUtre~bU/*asUstre~bU (as
> reconstructed by Vey) is a derivative of *o:k^u-ptr-o- and thus
> somehow related to <accipiter>.
>
> 1. What makes Vey reconstruct Proto-Slavic *asUtre,bU/*asUstre,bU (I
> don't have a copy of Bulletin de la Société de linguistique de Paris
> #49 at hand :) )? The evidence from the attested Slavic languages is
> as follows:
>
> 1.1 Bulg. ja'streb m. 'hawk Astur palumbarius', Mac. jastreb m.
> 'id.', S-Cr. ja"strijeb, dial. ja"stre^b, ja"stri^b m. 'kite',
> ja"strov, strebic' 'Aërocephalis palustris', Sloven. ja^streb m.
> 'hawk, kite', ja^stran 'id.' [most likely a secondary form], Cz.
> jestr^a'b m. 'hawk Astur palumbarius', Slovak. jastab m. 'id.',
> HSorb.(-Lus.) jatr^ob', G. -bja m. 'hawk Astur, kite Vultur', LSorb.(-
> Lus.) jasts'eb', jasts'eb m. 'hawk Astur palumbarius', OPol. jastram
> 'id.' [most likely a secondary form], Pol. jastrza,b, G. -e,bia
> 'id.', Kash.-Sl.(Pom.) ja.~str^ïb (a with a dot and a tilde above, r^
> as in Cz., it seems Lorentz tried to use merely phonetic notation),
> ORuss jastre,bU, jastrebU 'id.', Russ. ja'streb m. 'id.', Ukr.
> ja'strib m. 'id.', dial. astrJA'b (JA for the last letter of the Ukr.
> alph.) [note initial a-], ja's'tr'ab [Vey was probably not aware of
> the form, [s'] is palatalized, and the yers fell rather _late_ in
> Ukrainian, later, than, eg, even in Northern dialects of Russian],
> ja'strJAb 'id.', Bel. ja'strab 'id.'.
>
> This forms point, first of all, to *a- or *ja-, though *a- is
> preferred not only because of _possible_ non-Slavic cogantes, but
> also because of Ukr. dial. astrJA'b.
> As for the rest of the word, the forms enumerated point to *astre,bU
> and, most likely, *astre,bI (cf. also *astre,binUjI).
> S-Cr. ja"strijeb, dial. ja"stri^b and Ukr. ja'strib, of not of a
> secondary origin, may also point to *astre^bU.
>
> 1.2 Cz. jestr^a'bek, G. -bka m., 'dimin. of jestr^a'b', LSorb.(-Lus.)
> jasts'ebk m. 'hazel-grouse Bonasa silvestris', Pol. jastrza,bek, G. -
> bka, 'dim. of jastrza,b', Russ. jastrebo'k, G. -bka 'small hawk'.
>
> Point to *astre,bUkU.
>
> 1.3 Bulg. ja'strebec 'dim. of ja'streb', S.-Cr. jastre'bac, G. -pca
> m. 'dim. of jastreb', Cz. jestr^a'bec, G. -bce, m. 'dim. of
> jestr^a'b'.
>
> Point to *astre,bIcI.
>
> 1.4 Sloven. ja^strebji 'of hawk', Cz. jestr^a'bi' 'id.', Slovak.
> jastrabi' 'id.', Pol. jastrze,bi 'id.', Kash.-Sl.(Pom.) jastr^a.~bji
> 'id.', Russ. ChSlav. jasre,blI 'id.'
>
> Point to *astre,bIjI / *astre,bjI
>
> 1.5 Sloven. ja^strob m. 'hawk Astur palumbarius', Ukr. ja'strub m.
> 'id.'
>
> If not of secondary origin, point to *astro,bU (cf. *golo,bU
> 'pigeon').
>
> 1.6 Ukr. dial. ja'ster 'hawk'. If not of secondary origin, points to
> *astrU. Cf. also *astriti > Cz. dial. jastr^iti, jastr^it', jastriti
> 'look intently, vigilantly', Slovak. jastrit' 'id.', Pol. jastrzyc'
> 'id.'.
>
> 1.7 LSorb.(-Lus.) jasts'ebiny 'of hawk', Russ. jastrebi'nyj 'id.'
> point to *astre,binUjI (probably < *astre,bI, like *golo,bI >
> *golo,binUjI).
>
> 1.8. Bulg. ja'strebov 'of hawk', Mac. jastrebov 'id.', S-Cr.
> ja"stre^bov 'id.'. Point to *astre,bovU.
>
> So, a direct comparative procedure (not speculative etymologizing)
> yields *(j)astre,bU, probably also *(j)astre,bI, *(j)astro,bU and *(j)
> astrU. Why *asUtre,bU and especially *asUstre,bU?
>
> 2. What makes you think < *o:k^u-ptr-o- is a "majority view"? I'm
> aware of the following:
>
> 2.1 The etymology which looks like the "majority view" is <
> *o:k^ro-/*a:k^ro- 'fast (?)' + *-mbH- (/-embH-) 'animals' names-
> forming suffix', while Latin accipiter is etymologized as <*a:k^i-
> /*a:k^u-. At least my sources (Vasmer, Trubachev et al.) state that
> it's more or less the point of view shared by Brugmann, Meillet,
> Vaillant, Petersson, Berneker, Sobolevskij, Bru"kner, Niedermann,
> Specht, Sl/awski, Vasmer, Shevelov, Sadnik, Aitzetmu"ler.
>
> Haas thinks the Slavic word is related to Greek (<pre-Greek)
> Astrabakos 'a hero's nom. pr.' < *ok^rnbho- (supported in Sadnik-
> Aitzetmu"ller's dictionary).
>
> 2.2 I don't know who has supported Vey's etymology unreservedly,
> except Machek, though he offered a slightly different solution: <
> *o:k^u-pet-ros, a (problematic) cognate of accipiter.
>
> 2.3 There's a number of more exotic/marginal points of view, among
> them:
>
> 2.3.1 Loewenthal: akin to Venetic Assoparis 'hawk's nestling' <
> Illyr. *assos 'hawk' < PIE *attos, a possible cognate of OIrish a'ith
> 'sharp', Lett. a:trs.
> 2.3.2 Mayer: akin to Late Latin astur 'hawk' < Messap. < PIE *astr,
> cf. Latin uultur 'kite'.
> 2.3.3 Jagic': *ostrU 'fast (?)' + *re,bU 'speckled'.
> 2.3.4 Uhlenbeck, Fraenkel, Bulakhovskij: *jast(I)-re,bU 'patrige-
> eater'.
> 2.3.5 Bubrikh: < *n:t-trmbH- 'duck-thrasher'.
> 2.3.6 Sadnik and Aitzetmu"ler: prefix *ja- + *stre,bU (the latter not
> etymologized).
>
>
> Sergei
>
>
>
>
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