Re: [tied] Slavic hawk-word

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 10904
Date: 2001-11-02

It's a different brief article by Vey, in BSLP#32 (1953), pp.65-67: "Slave st- provenant d'i.-e. *pt-". I haven't got a copy to check either and I cited the reconstruction second-hand after Frederik Kortlandt (1982), who accepts it without a detailed explanation ("Vey has shown that the word can be reconstructed as either *asUtre~bU or *asUstre~bU ...") while rebuking H.D. Pohl (1980), who "mentions only the latter possibility" in his article on the Slavic development of *pt-. Thanks for listing the evidence. If I have a chance (I won't be near a library till next week), I'll check what data prompted Vey's reconstruction, and to what extent it can be called speculative. *o:k^ro-/*a:k^ro- is itself rather speculative; at any rate I'm not aware of such forms with the meaning 'fast'. Anyway, in addition to <accipiter> (apparently < *&k^wi-petros) we have similar compouds with the right vocalism of the initial in Greek (o:ku-pteros 'swift-winged' [or rather 'swift-sailed', as it's used of sailing-ships], o:ku-ptera "the large contour feathers in a wing") and Old Indic (a:s'u-pat-van- 'flying swiftly'), so Vey's forms are (weakly) supported by back reconstruction.
 
Piotr
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Sergejus Tarasovas
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 2:14 AM
Subject: [tied] Slavic hawk-word

1. What makes Vey reconstruct Proto-Slavic *asUtre,bU/*asUstre,bU (I don't have a copy of Bulletin de la Société de linguistique de Paris #49 at hand :) )? The evidence from the attested Slavic languages is as follows:
 
[.......... Conclusion:]
 
So, a direct comparative procedure (not speculative etymologizing) yields *(j)astre,bU, probably also *(j)astre,bI, *(j)astro,bU and *(j)astrU. Why *asUtre,bU and especially *asUstre,bU?

2. What makes you think < *o:k^u-ptr-o- is a "majority view"? I'm
aware of the following:

2.1 The etymology which looks like the "majority view" is < *o:k^ro-/*a:k^ro- 'fast (?)' + *-mbH- (/-embH-) 'animals' names-forming suffix', while Latin accipiter is etymologized as <*a:k^i-/*a:k^u-. At least my sources (Vasmer, Trubachev et al.) state that it's more or less the point of view shared by Brugmann, Meillet, Vaillant, Petersson, Berneker, Sobolevskij, Bru"kner, Niedermann, Specht, Sl/awski, Vasmer, Shevelov, Sadnik, Aitzetmu"ler.

Haas thinks the Slavic word is related to Greek (<pre-Greek) Astrabakos 'a hero's nom. pr.' < *ok^rnbho- (supported in Sadnik-Aitzetmu"ller's dictionary).

2.2 I don't know who has supported Vey's etymology unreservedly, except Machek, though he offered a slightly different solution: < *o:k^u-pet-ros, a (problematic) cognate of accipiter.

2.3 There's a number of more exotic/marginal points of view, among them:

2.3.1 Loewenthal: akin to Venetic Assoparis 'hawk's nestling' < Illyr. *assos 'hawk' < PIE *attos, a possible cognate of OIrish a'ith 'sharp', Lett. a:trs.
2.3.2 Mayer: akin to Late Latin astur 'hawk' < Messap. < PIE *astr, cf. Latin uultur 'kite'.
2.3.3 Jagic': *ostrU 'fast (?)' + *re,bU 'speckled'.
2.3.4 Uhlenbeck, Fraenkel, Bulakhovskij: *jast(I)-re,bU 'patrige-eater'.
2.3.5 Bubrikh: < *n:t-trmbH- 'duck-thrasher'.
2.3.6 Sadnik and Aitzetmu"ler: prefix *ja- + *stre,bU (the latter not etymologized).