From: lsroute66@...
Message: 10715
Date: 2001-10-29
> *****GK: My information differs from yours. WhileYes, indeed this is different information. And it would certainly be
> "Danubian" influence on B/D becomes progressively more
> noticeable up to its eventual absorption into
> Trypilia, "the very concept of pottery" arrived not
> from Cris=Koros but from the East, (most of the very
> earliest "pots" having clear analogies to the cultures
> of the Crimea, Azov, and Caspian sea areas.) Only a
> tiny fraction can be linked to the south, Thessaly
> specifically. The influence of cris=Koros only
> intensifies at the beginning of the middle phase of
> B/D.*****
> *****GK: I'll get back to you on this in a few days,Yes, well, it's sort of you versus Zvebelil, Dolukhanov, et al. isn't
> as soon as our charged out University library copy of
> Price gets to me. We'll see if Z& L are more accurate
> than Dolukhanov. Judging by your report I doubt it,
> but will suspend judgement for a bit. Do they say
> anything about Kukrek and subsequent eastern impulses?
> If not, they're not reliable.******
> Meantime, a map on page 73 of the Zvelebil article shows LBKgeorge knysh <gknysh@...> replied:
> settlements less than 200km from Dnieper-Donetz
> sites, both well north of Bog-Dniester.
> *****GK: My map seems more precise. LBK is about 100Yes, well, perhaps you might want to get to Zvelebil on that.
> km. and B/D 80 km. away from the nearest D/D "as the
> crow flies".*****
> *****GK: That is arguable but possible,. In any eventAnd again the question would be what evidence you have of this
> this was long after "the very concept of pottery"
> arrived to D/D. At the earliest phase, the Azov area
> of D/D was culturally more advanced than the Dnipro
> and West area, which indicates where the original
> "impulse" was coming from (the Caucasus).****
> *****GK: I agree that this is what happened with B/D.Or too undesirable? Once again this absorption thing. In the models
> But D/D was primarily absorbed by Serednyj Stih. As I
> have already pointed out, the latter was more than
> quite apparently far too powerful for the Trypilian
> farmers to infiltrate and assimilate.
> numbers, the Trypilians were "stuck" on the right bankThere are lots of good reasons for cities when you have the ability
> of the Dnipro for hundreds of years,... and their
> evolution was towards "proto-cities" there with
> increasing concentration of population rather than
> spread towards the territories of the east...
> This type of relationship obviously does not argue forEven if I conceded your scenario, you may not be right. Rome fell,
> the spread of the Trypilian language eastward.
> the Trypilians who became the objectsWell, pretty pottery will do that every time.
> of cultural and linguistic assimilation by the
> Serednyj Stih peoples in the final phase of Trypilia
> with... massive adoption of corded ware ceramics).******