Something for Sergijus

From: george knysh
Message: 10676
Date: 2001-10-27

While leafing through the first chapter of my
"Hydronymia of Ukraine..." (1981), in that part which
analyzes hydronyms from the classical Scythian epoch,
and more specifically the older name of the
Dnister/Dnestr, which was TUR`ES (the ` on top of the
E) [Herodotus], TURAS (Strabo), TYRAS (Ovidius), I
note that there is a very positive reference to (and
abbreviation of) the argumentation developed by
V.Petrov in his "Slavic Ethnogenesis"(pp.69-70). Here
is that argumentation:

"As in other instances, the river name Tira is usually
explained by reference to Iranic appellatives. F. Brun
linked the rn Tira with Persian "tir" (=arrow)...
O.I.Sobolevskii refers to the "Old Bactrian and also
Old Persian name of the people Tura. .. M. Vasmer, and
following him V. Abayev and T. Lehr-Splawinski point
to Kurdish Tur ("wild" "untamed", and to Iranic turas
("swift").=== A.O Biletskyj advanced a correction of
the etymology of TURE`S from Iranic Turas. In such a
comparison "the equivalence of Greek and Iranic 'U' is
doubtful" he said... Therefore in his opinion, the
name of the r. Tira is not Iranic but "pre-Iranic". We
must accept this note of caution. Indo-Iranic
languages have given us practically no convincing
topo-or hydronymic analogies for this area. But if we
turn to the Baltic languages, we find : Lith. tyras
("wilderness, mud, swamp"; tyras ("free(of trees),
desertlike, wild"; tyrus, the same; tyrybe, tyrumas
"wilderness, desert, steppe"; tirelis, tyruliai "deep
and great muddy area". Compare Latv. tirelis, tirulis
"mud, muddy 'luh' ; tirums "field", tiriba (something
I can't translate without a dictionary) tirs ("clean,
cleared of forest".) Cpre also Lith. hydronymia:
Tyrelio upelis, Tyrelis, Tyr-upelis, Tyrupis."

And "Hydronymia..." contends: "we are looking here at
new Baltic (Balto-Slavic?) perspectives for the
understanding of the hydronymics of Herodotus'
Scythia."(p. 21)

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