Uralic and PIE/Danube

From: lsroute66@...
Message: 10548
Date: 2001-10-23

--- In cybalist@..., "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...> wrote:
<<Neither IE nor IndoTyrrhenian could possibly come from Anatolia
because to accept this would deny the close similarities apparent
between IndoTyrrhenian and Uralic families. These fundamental
similarities in morphology cannot be explained away by casual areal
influence either.>>

I don't know how far back we are going here, but there is evidence
that would suggest a borrowing of a lexicon group from PIE into
Uralic just about the time Danubian culture would have come into
contact with pre-dispersal Uralic speakers.

Ante Anaikio supplied these examples of many correspondences on the
other IE list from "Uralische Evidenz fŸr die
by the Germanist Jorma Koivulehto:
proto-U *pel(x)i- 'fear' < proto-IE *pelH- 'grau, fahl; schreckig'
p-U *toxi- 'bring, give, sell' < p-IE *doH- 'give'
p-U *koki- 'see, find' < p-IE *Hokw- 'see'
p-U *kulki- 'move, flow, walk' < p-IE *kwelH- 'drehen, sich drehen
p-U *mos«ki- 'wash' < p-IE *mozg(-eye)- 'untertauchen'
p-U *s«alkaw- 'pole, rod' < p-IE *g«halgho- id.
p-U *weti- 'water' < p-IE *wed- id.

Because the terminus (last unity) of P-U is most often dated from no
later than 5000 BC (e.g., Hajdu 1975), and because this date roughly
correlates with the advent of pit-comb ceramics, the borrowings might
be seen to have been from ceramic agriculturalists on the Danube, who
were clearly influenced that development. Moreover, pit comb culture
(thought by many to correlate initially to all or most Uralic
branches) them moved south and overlapped the northeastern range of
Tripolye-Cucuteni roughly around 5000BC. (See Dolukhanov (1996)).

It is suggested that these words, common to widely dispersed Uralic
daughter languages, each showing correspondent developments from
proto-Uralic, could only have been borrowed at these early dates.
The cultures often thought to represent the first divisions of Uralic
speakers (Niemen, Sperrings, Upper Volga, etc.) differentiate
apparently only after the first evidence of the neolithicization
influenced from the area of the Danube.

As far as when pre-proto-Uralic speakers would have moved north and
where from, that is a little too long range I suspect for much help
from archaeology.
Regards, Steve Long