[tied] Re: Odin the Immigrant?

--- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:

> One of the components of Odinn is surely *Dyeus P@..., cf. epithet

ON

> Allfadur "All-Father".

That is certainly possible. I don't deny the Dyeus Pater element is
there, but since the Romans connected him to Mercury rather than
Jupiter, I think it must have been obscured by Odin's other
characteristics.


Could this Allfadur epithet be used because he is head of the
pantheon, rather than because of a specific connection with Dyeus
Pater? I know that the Romans attached Pater to deities other than
Jupiter.

Cort Williams

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MrCaws@...>
> To: <cybalist@...>
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:40 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Odin the Immigrant?
>
>
> > --- In cybalist@..., "William P. Reaves" <beowulf@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hej Chris,
> > >
> > > I am glad to see someone refute this theory so strongly.
> > Personally, I
> > > believe that Odin is none other than the *Dyuas Pater of the
> > Germanic
> > > tribes.
> >
> > > The 19th century Swedish philosopher and mythologist Viktor

Rydberg

> > makes an
> > > interesting case that Odin, as far as attributes and position

most

> > resembles
> > > the other Indo-European sky-fathers. Rather than a change of
> > position, Odin
> > > simply underwent a name change.
> >
> > > Some of the evidence Rydberg cites is Odin's place among two
> > brothers and
> > > co-creators. His battle for supremecy over an earlier race of
> > giants, whom
> > > he is related to. His position as a Sky-god. (His single eye
> > represents the
> > > single eye of the sky, either sun or moon). His positon as

ruler of

> > > storms/battle. His casting weapon (Gungnir). His marriage to the
> > earth. Also
> > > his designation as All-father.
> >
> >
> > Although Odin was the head of the pantheon and a god of war, many

of

> > his other attributes don't fit well with what I know of

Zeus/Jupiter

> > >From what I've read, storms are more the territory of Thor. I'd

be

> > interested in material linking Odin with storms.
> > I interpret Odin's one eye differently. Odin sacrificed his eye

to

> > drink from the well of knowledge or see the future. This is

similar

> > to Horus asking Ra to see all of creation, and going blind as a
> > result.
> > This is one of many instances where Odin exposes himself to

danger

> > or harm in his quest for knowledge-He aslo hung himself of

Yggrasadil

> > for nine days so that he could learn the art of writing runes, and
> > took a trip to Hel to learn the answer to one question. In another
> > episode, Odin kept and preserved the head of the slain giant

Mimir so

> > that he could use it as an oracle.
> > Odin's many quests for knowledge and knowledge of the future

reveal

> > Odin as a magician and prophet. His attire, a cloak and a wide-
> > brimmed hat, also support this. He also taught makind the arts,
> > particularly poetry, which in myth is linked with prophecy.
> > He often wielded his spear Gungnir as a scepter or staff, the

tool of

> > a magician.
> > The spear is also associated with the hunt. Among Odin's animal
> > assistants numbered two wolves or dogs, and his eight-legged steed
> > Sleipnir. Apparently in some regions Odin was beleived to ride

this

> > horse on the Wild Hunt. Hunting gods also seem to be associated

with

> > prophecy for some reason, in my observation.
> > Odin also taught mankind the arts, and particularly poetry.

Poetry

> > and song are linked with prophecy in myth. For some reason, so is
> > hunting.
> > Odin was also the patron of commerce and travelers, similar to
> > Mercury of Hermes. The Romans equated Odin with Mercury rather

than

> > Jupiter. This can still be seen today in Wednesday or Woden's day,
> > and the Italian Mercoledi or Mercury day.
> >
> >
> >
> > > The case for Tyr as the Dyuas Pater of the Germanic tribes is

based

> > on
> > > nothing more than etymology of the name. And the theory that the
> > Germans had
> > > an earlier god named *Tiu which was displaced by Odin is
> > unfortunately still
> > > current in many scholarly books.
> > >
> > > I tend to believe that if the Germanics had a god named *Tiu it

was

> > merely
> > > Odin himself under an earlier name, rather than the god Tyr who

was

> > > displaced by the migrant Odin.
> >
> >
> > Tyr is interesting, I want to learn more about him. I know

Tuesday is

> > named after Tyr. In Italian, Tuesday is Martedi.
> > I also know one story about him: The gods wanted to bind the

Fenris

> > wolf, and finally made a chain strong enogh to hold him. They
> > couldn't think of a way to catch him, though, so they decided

instead

> > to trick him. They told the wolf they only wanted to test the
> > strength of the chain, and they would let him go after that. As

proof

> > of their sincerity, Tyr put his right hand in the wolf's mouth.

The

> > gods broke their word, and Tyr lost a hand.
> > This seems similar to Odin sacrificing his eye for knowledge.

Odin

> > gives up one eye to know or see more, Tyr gives up his hand to

make

> > his word binding. I've read about a pricniple triad of Teutonic
> > deities: Odin, Thor, and Tyr. Maybe this corresponds with the old
> > Roman triad Quirinus, Jupiter, Mars? I'm still working on that

idea.

> >
> > Cort Williams
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >