Re: Tribal Names in IE Languages

--- In cybalist@..., lsroute66@... wrote:

> --- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:
> > As for 'Bastarnae' meaning "mixed breed, bastards" this is

exactly

> > what Tacitus describes them to be. That's an indication.
>
> (Please forgive the one topic posts but it seems that my posts are
> being cut off and my guess is that they are too long for the way
>I'm
> posting them - directly from the website.)

I've never had that problem posting directly from the website.

> I don't know of a single instance of <bast-> in any form appearing

in

> any pre-medieval text that equates it with "mixed breeds" or
> illegitimates. Not in Greek, Roman, Persian, Sanskrit, Gothic,

etc.

> There may be one, but I've never seen it and I've made this

challenge

> many times.
>
> As for Tacitus, he never says "bastarnae" means "mixed breed."

Yes, yes. And I never said he did. I said that he calls
them "bastarnae" and that he describes them as a "mixed breed". But
of course, if you invent other peoples' opinions it's easier to argue
against them.

> The
> contrast Tacitus seems to make is between the Venedhi and

Bastarnae.
Erh? Why do you say that?

> The Venedhi may be classifiable as Germans because, though they

wander

> about, they do it on foot.
>
> There's good reason to think that Tacitus and his contemporary

readers

> would have recognized the word "bastarnae" as relating to wagons,
> litters, baggage carriers, i.e., the Scythian/Sarmatian life style.

And that reason is?

>
> There's really no good reason to think that any contemporary of
> Tacitus would have thought the word "bastarnae" meant mixed breed.

And nobody said they did.

> And there is really no reason to think that Tacitus knew or

expected

> his readers to know that some Germanic word that sounded like
> "bastarnae."

And I never said that either. Who are you actually arguing against?
Every single of my points of view you have rendered here so far you
have been able somehow to misrepresent.

> "Bastazo:" was a word used many times in many forms in Classical
> Greek. In Roman word was used often enough. But it appears to

NEVER

> have meant mixed b

Some stuff I picked up: bast, to baste "sow together", O. Fr. bastir
(Fr. bâtir) "build", German basteln "construct, build, put together
in a haphazard, temporary fashion" (especially of hobbies, cf Levy-
Strauss' 'bricoleur' the man who makes things on the spot, ad hoc).
The AmE 'kludge' comes to mind. From this it easy to get,
semantically speaking to both "bastard" (made without plan, 'kludge'
baby) and to various straps, litters etc used on pack animals.
Personally I think the traditional interpretation of 'bast' in 'fil
de bast' as "packsaddle" is suspect. A son made in the packsaddle? A
son dangling from the packsaddle?

Torsten