Re: [tied] Goths: IE Languages vs Germanic

But if the root in question exists in Germanic (*gHeud- gives e.g.
German giessen) and explains the attested Germanic forms, (all based
on *gut- < *gHud-), why propose a loan from Greek in the first place?
Some of the Greek words you quote are related to <kHeo:>, but most
aren't, and are just "phonetically similar". None of them throws any
light on Graeco/Latin <goth-> as a substitute for <gut-/got->, so
what's the purpose of the whole exercise?

Piotr

--- In cybalist@..., lsroute66@... wrote:
> --- I wrote:
> > And in fact Greek has a huge vocabulary built on "pour" words,
some
> of which may match the Grk/Latin <Goth-> perhaps better than <*gud-
>.
> --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> replied:
> > Namely? The Greek words in question are items like <kHe(w)o:>.
How
> do you propose to derive <goth-> from them? The <-th-> question has
> been discussed before...
> --- My Reply:
> First of all, <kheo:> yields forms like <khu^ton> (pp; poured,
heaped
> up, mounded) and <khute:n> (adv; poured, flooded). In these alone,
> the word starts to approximate the various actual or proposed forms
> of the Goth word in both meanings and sounds. These forms of
<kheo:>
> were applied to everything from burial mounds and dykes to streams,
> cast metals and libations -- all things that might be associated
with
> the Goths.
> Secondly, how would Germanic speakers borrow such a word in, say,
the
> first century BC (as a name given to them by Greeks), given their
own
> phonotactics or even as a calque? A change from an unvoiced velar
to
> voiced stop might even be expected -- given what they heard and how
> it translated into a word they knew.
> Also, there are words in Greek like <kutos>, jar, vessel; <kutis>,
> small chest, trunk; <ko:tho:n> a soldierÕs drinking cup; <kuttoi>,
> receptacles; <kottabus>, a bowl used in a game; <guthisso:n>,
trench;
> <gouttaton>, a sunken cake; <keutho:>, cover a grave; <kautos>,
> smelted metal, burnt-offering for the dead (Cf., Gothic, <sa:uths>,
> sacrifice, burnt-offering); <kudar>, funeral-rites; <goe:te:s,
> goe:tou>, wailer (pouring forth sounds?); <goe:s, goe:tos>,
sorcerer,
> wizard (Jordanis makes mention of this related to Gothic priests);
> <zuthos>,"the beer of northern nations;" <Guthion> a seaport (in
> Laconia); <Ko:tho:n>, a harbor; etc.
>
> How would such words have been borrowed from Greek?
> Steve Long