Re: Skiri Bastarnae

--- In cybalist@..., malmqvist52@... wrote:

> --- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:
>
> > From when does Jordanes count Gothic kingship? From the arrival

at

> > Gothiscandza or does he include the time in Scandinavia.
> >
> Hi Torsten,
>
> I'm sorry it took so long for me to anwer this. I won't come up

with

> any excuses.
> But a cause for it that one might ask How does Jordanes *know* that
> the kingship is exacly 2030 years. In addition to all other reasons
> to question the credibility of his writing.
>
> Now to your question:
> Jordanes writes:
> "And thus a famous kingdom and most valiant race, which had long

held

> sway, was at last overcome in almost its two thousand and thirtieth
> year by that conquerer of many nations, the Emperor Justinian,
> through his most faithful consul Belisarius. He gave Vitiges the
> title of Patrician and took him to Constantinople, where he dwelt

for

> more than two years, bound by ties of affection to the Emperor, and
> then departed this life."
>
> One way one can iterpret this is that he is talking about the Goths
> as the race that conquers nations, and since he in an earlier

passage

> writes:
> "Now from this island of Scandza, as from a hive of races or a womb
> of nations, the Goths are said to have come forth long ago under
> their king, Berig by name. As soon as they disembarked from their
> ships and set foot on the land, they straightway gave their name to
> the place. And even to-day it is said to be called Gothiscandza.

(26)

> Soon they moved from here to the abodes of the Ulmerugi, who then
> dwelt on the shores of Ocean, where they pitched camp, joined

battle

> with them and drove them from their homes. Then they subdued their
> neighbors, the Vandals, and thus added to their victories. But when
> the number of the people increased greatly and Filimer, son of
> Gadaric, reigned as king--about the fifth since Berig--he decided
> that the army of the Goths with their families should move from

that

> region."
> where it seems as if he knows nearly nothing about the time in
> Scandza and that this Berig is leading the tribe that conquers
> nations, and that the tribes not being the one that conquers

nations,

> seem to be the ones left behind in Scandza.
>
> Maybe it's possible to interpret him differently, but I think I'm

for

> now satisfied with this interpretation.
>
> Best wishes
> Anders

So from the arrival in Gothiscandza. OK.
BTW What are the arguments why Getae and Goths are considered
different, in spite of Jordanes' and Procopius' claim to the contrary
(apart from the obvious fact that the Getae spoke Thracian)?

Torsten