Re: Which Manansala? (was [tied] a(i)s-)

--- In cybalist@..., naga_ganesan@... wrote:

> --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> >But as an author of linguistic essays he's done enough harm to his
> >own reputation.
>
> Indologists, who at least one classical language and texts
> from India well, do not take Dr. Paul K Manansala's attribution
> of many Indian cultural and lexical wealth to Austronesian.
> You can check prof. Witzel's points in his replies to
> Dr. Manansala in the list, Indology @ Liverpool archives.
>
> I've hard time accepting that the Churning of the Ocean
> story between devas and asuras described in Mahabharata epic
> comes from Indonesia, volcanic eruptions etc., If I understand
> some posts from PKM in Indology, that's the claim.
>
> Regards,
> N. Ganesan

Rc: Dr Manansala's views have brought down some ire from various
indologists.

What I find interesting is his approach, which seeks connectivity
and the causes therof between various cultures.

His views are not pro AIT or Pro OIT, and this does draw the ire of
both sides.

He also does claim to have analysed the process from a linguistic
methodology, but I admittedly am not competent to comment on that
field, but like others do enjoy and learn from what others write.

For myself, I found his linkages between the finds in Polynesia and
The Harappan civilization, and other civilizations , quite intriguing
and ofcourse he constantly cites the need for further research.

Try one such article of his, with various links at the follwing URL.

http://pweb.jps.net/~kabalen/vedicindia.html


Best regards

Ravi

P.S. I am forwarding a message of his on the Indian Civilization e
group, which has relevnace to a discussion of a topic on this list.


From: kekai@...
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 7:35 pm
Subject: Fwd: Re: [tied] Rigvedic horses

--- In IndianCivilization@..., VAgarwalV@... wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., VAgarwalV@... wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> > The palaeobiological and veterinarian experts quoted in the
article
> > discuss the rib-count question quite exhaustively. The number of
> > dorsal (thoracic) vertebrae and, correspondingly, of ribs, is
> > variable in many species. Sheep, for example, have 13 pairs (like
> > other ruminants), but occasionally 14; pigs may have from 13 to
17
> > pairs of ribs.
> VA: It would be interesting here to note that the sacrifice of the
> horse in Ashwamedha is preceded by that of a goat. The Rigveda does
> not state the number of ribs of the goat, but its ritual text - the
> Shankhayana Shrautasutra, elaborates this in the form of a verse
> which should be recited before the Rk stating the number of ribs of
> the horse is uttered. The goat here is said to have 26 ribs (If I
> recall correctly, this verse is found in the 5th book of the
> Shankhayana Shrautasutra although the Ashvamedha section appears
> later).
> BTW, the Rigveda is not alone in enumerating the number of horse
ribs
> as 34. Other texts (e.g. Shatapatha Brahmana - can look up the
exact
> reference if you insist) also give the same number.
>


Also in the Yajurveda:

Yajurveda Kanda IV-6-9 (translated by Keith):

"So with holy power all these of thine I put in order.

The four and thirty ribs of the strong steed,
Kin of the gods, the axe meeteth;
Skilfully do ye make the joints faultless;
Declaring each part, do ye cut it asunder.

One carver is there of the steed of Tvastr
Two restrainers are there, so is the use;
Those parts of thy limbs that I place in order"


> It would be interesting to know how many ribs are present in the
> Akhalteke horse of Turkmenistan (although 'pure' breeds might not
be
> present today). Does any listmember have this information? It will
be
> particularly interesting because IVC did have trade relations with
> Turkmenistan, and while the Akhalteke need not go back to 2500 BCE,
> the area is indeed postulated as one of the plausible areas where
> horse domestication first occured. For instance, ZEUNER [1963:314]
> says -

The Akhalteke is a very unusual breed that has some relatives in
northern Iran. It is known to "sweat blood."

I tend to doubt that the ancient Indian horse, judging from
artistic representations, is strongly related to this horse which
is fairly large in stature.

>
> PIOTR states -
> In horses, the "2x17" character is a recessive
> > feature, but I suppose inbreeding can increase its frequency in
> some
> > breeds (e.g. in some strains of Arabian horses). Some sources,
e.g.
> >
> > http://www.bahrainhorses.com.bh/%5CArabHorses.asp
> >
> > (and also my edition of MS Encarta Encyclopedia) suggest that
> > Arabians _always_ have 2x17 ribs (as well as 5 lumbar and 16
caudal
> > vertebrae, compared with 6 and 18 in other horses), but that is a
> > popular myth (like a similar belief concerning mustangs
>

This is a confusion with a traceable pedigree that mixes up the
Arabian with the Barb horse of Africa.


> VISHAL comments - You will be interested in knowing that the Vedic
> texts enumerate 6 lumbar vertebrae in the sacrificial horse. To
quote
> the Taittiriya Samhita -
>
> Khanda v. 7. 17.
>

Yes, I discussed this with Subhash Kak some time ago. The SE Asian
breed differs from the Barb in that it has six vertebrae unlike the
five of the latter (both have 17 rib pairs). These traits still
manifest to this day among isolated horse stock in the area.

Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
http://pweb.jps.net/~kabalen/vedicindia.html




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