[tied] Re: APOLLO and ... MARS?

--- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:

> And it's possible to see in Ophion's teeth crushing by Eurynome, the
> Biblical tale of snake tred by the Eva.

Yes, and in Genesis, the part where God puts enmity between women
and the serpent, saying "they(women)will strike at your head,
you will strike at their heel."

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MrCaws@...>
> To: <cybalist@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:47 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: APOLLO and ... MARS?
>
>
> > --- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:
> > > Robert Graves had the same opinion: he thought North Wind gods

in

> > Greece
> > > were doublets of Ophion.
> > >
> > > I think the Northern trait could also an IE origin, similar to
> > Rudra (whose
> > > homeplace was in Hymalayas).
> > > A god of cure and plague; archer; wolfish; fierce and savage;
> > avenger;
> > > coming from Northern Mountains.
> >
> > I agree with these attributes coincinding, perhaps coming from a
> > hunting god, I'm thinking.
> >
> > The Northern mountain thing is interesting, but I'm leaning

towards a

> > different explanation:
> >
> > There is an awful lot of dancing in the Eurynome creation story-
> > Eurynome dances alone at first, then spins about with Ophion, her
> > partner. The whole thing seems like it would be suited for

enactment

> > in a ritual dance, the female as Eurynome, the male as Ophion.
> > Perhaps Ophion's norhtern wind comes from ritual way that the
> > dancers were to be situated, cardinal directions being a good

choice

> > since they can be coordinated easily with the sun. Song and dance

go

> > back further than prose, and in non-literate societies, I think

this

> > would be an ideal way for an old creation story to survive through
> > the millenia.
> >
> > Cort Williams
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <MrCaws@...>
> > > To: <cybalist@...>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 10:39 PM
> > > Subject: [tied] Re: APOLLO and ... MARS?
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...>

wrote:

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I found this in
> > > > >

http://www.users.qwest.net/~mcochrane/Myth/Apollo/apollo.html

> > > > > I'd like to hear your comments...
> > > > > " In light of Apollo's resemblance to various Oriental gods
> > > > identified with
> > > > > the planet Mars, it is significant to note that the Greek

god's

> > > > close
> > > > > resemblance to the Latin god Mars has long been

acknowledged.

> > Well
> > > > over a
> > > > > hundred years ago, Roscher documented that the cults of

Apollo

> > and
> > > > Mars were
> > > > > fundamentally analogous. Roscher pointed to a host of

features

> > > > shared in
> > > > > common between the two gods, including the following:
> > > > > (1) each was associated with the first month of the year;
> > > > > (2) each was identified with certain animals and sacred

trees;

> > > > > (3) each was regarded as a patron of migrations and founder

of

> > > > cities;
> > > > > (4) each was associated with colonizing ventures as

exemplified

> > by
> > > > the Latin
> > > > > ver sacrum rite.
> > > > > Apollo, like Mars, was invoked as a great warrior to fend

off

> > the
> > > > hostile
> > > > > neighbors. An early Greek prayer invokes Apollo as
> > follows: "Send a
> > > > > far-darting arrow from your bow against the enemy. Strike,

O

> > > > Paian!"
> > > > > Indeed, the Athenian army appears to have been under the

direct

> > > > patronage of
> > > > > Apollo.
> > > > > Both gods were associated with the advent and warding off of
> > > > pestilence and
> > > > > disease. The name Isminthians-signifying that god who

sends,

> > but
> > > > also
> > > > > averts, plagues of mice (smintheus is an ancient Cretan word
> > meaning
> > > > > "mouse")-is one of the Latin god's oldest epithets.
> > > > > Yet the very same epithet was applied to Apollo in Asia

Minor.

> > > > This fact,
> > > > > if it does not support the identification of Apollo and

Mars, at

> > > > least
> > > > > supports the view that the two gods were functionally

analogous

> > in
> > > > ancient
> > > > > cult. The fact that the cult of Apollo Smintheus has yet

to be

> > > > found on
> > > > > mainland Greece-but only upon the outlying islands of Crete

and

> > > > Rhodes,
> > > > > sites of archaic Greek colonies situated between mainland

Greece

> > > > and Asia
> > > > > Minor-is an indication, perhaps, that Apollo's cult

originally

> > came
> > > > to
> > > > > Greece from the ancient Near East.
> > > > > An unusual feature of Mars' cult is the war-god's

identification

> > > > with a
> > > > > wolf. This motif is attested very early and, as the epithet
> > lupus
> > > > Martius
> > > > > attests, would appear to be central to the mythology and
> > iconography
> > > > > surrounding the Latin god.
> > > > > As Apollo Lykeios, the ancient Greeks understood Apollo as a
> > wolf-
> > > > god
> > > > > (lykeios is from a Greek stem meaning "wolf"). As the

chorus of

> > > > Aeschylus'
> > > > > Seven attests, Apollo the wolf was conceived as a
> > > > warrior: "Lykeios, lord,
> > > > > be wolvish toward the enemy's army." Wolves were

sacrificed to

> > > > Apollo at
> > > > > Argos and elsewhere on the Greek peninsula (this in spite

of the

> > > > fact that
> > > > > wolves were extremely rare animals in Greek cult), and in

Argive

> > > > ritual a
> > > > > wolf was pitted in combat against a bull, this latter rite

said

> > to
> > > > symbolize
> > > > > Apollo's combat with Poseidon. Although scholars have

observed

> > that
> > > > > Apollo's lupine-characteristics belong to the most archaic
> > stage of
> > > > his
> > > > > cult, an explanation of the significance of Apollo Lykeios

has

> > not
> > > > been
> > > > > forthcoming."
> > > > > (...)
> > > >
> > > > I read the article, found it very interesting.
> > > >
> > > > The idea of a connection with Mars is interesting, since there
> > isn't
> > > > a good match for Apollo in the Greek pantheon. Mars originally
> > was a
> > > > protector of fields and herds, a hunting god, and a god of
> > > > boundaries at least according to my Roman Religion professor.
> > These
> > > > match up well with some of Apollo's attributes.
> > > >
> > > > I want to find details about the shared sacred animals, trees,
> > etc.
> > > > That's intriguing stuff.
> > > >
> > > > I would speculate that the wolf attribute might be associated

with

> > > > the idea of a role as protector and destroyer of herds and
> > cattle, as
> > > > well as with war and the underworld.
> > > >
> > > > One thing that occured to me when I read it-They were

discussing

> > > > the nature of Hyperborean Apollo, an epithet usually used to
> > denote a
> > > > northern origin of the deity-From the peoples beyond the North
> > Wind.
> > > >
> > > > I thought of a different meaning to this though-In the

Pelasgian

> > > > Creation Myth, which I was discussing with Glen in a different
> > thread,
> > > >
> > > > The fist being is goddess Eurynome, who starts out alone,

dancing

> > > > above the waters. She eventually dances, creating Ophion out

of

> > the
> > > > northern wind, a serpent, who coils about her and mates with

her.

> > > > This impregnates her, so she turns into a dove and lays an

egg.

> > > > Ophion coils about this egg seven times, and then the

universe

> > > > emerges from the egg.
> > > >
> > > > The article mentions that Apollo's favorite number is 7, a

rather

> > > > unusual Hellenic number. So I propose that this Hyperborean

name

> > is
> > > > referring to Apollo's identification with the primeval male
> > > > principle, Ophion.
> > > > Apollo has association with serpents, being one and slaying

them.

> > > > Many of Apollo's attributes identify him with ithyphallic
> > fertility
> > > > gods appropriate for this serpentine Ophion deity.
> > > >
> > > > Cort Williams
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >