From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 9986
Date: 2001-10-04
----- Original Message -----
From: <MrCaws@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:47 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: APOLLO and ... MARS?
> --- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:
> > Robert Graves had the same opinion: he thought North Wind gods in
> Greece
> > were doublets of Ophion.
> >
> > I think the Northern trait could also an IE origin, similar to
> Rudra (whose
> > homeplace was in Hymalayas).
> > A god of cure and plague; archer; wolfish; fierce and savage;
> avenger;
> > coming from Northern Mountains.
>
> I agree with these attributes coincinding, perhaps coming from a
> hunting god, I'm thinking.
>
> The Northern mountain thing is interesting, but I'm leaning towards a
> different explanation:
>
> There is an awful lot of dancing in the Eurynome creation story-
> Eurynome dances alone at first, then spins about with Ophion, her
> partner. The whole thing seems like it would be suited for enactment
> in a ritual dance, the female as Eurynome, the male as Ophion.
> Perhaps Ophion's norhtern wind comes from ritual way that the
> dancers were to be situated, cardinal directions being a good choice
> since they can be coordinated easily with the sun. Song and dance go
> back further than prose, and in non-literate societies, I think this
> would be an ideal way for an old creation story to survive through
> the millenia.
>
> Cort Williams
>
>
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <MrCaws@...>
> > To: <cybalist@...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 10:39 PM
> > Subject: [tied] Re: APOLLO and ... MARS?
> >
> >
> > > --- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I found this in
> > > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~mcochrane/Myth/Apollo/apollo.html
> > > > I'd like to hear your comments...
> > > > " In light of Apollo's resemblance to various Oriental gods
> > > identified with
> > > > the planet Mars, it is significant to note that the Greek god's
> > > close
> > > > resemblance to the Latin god Mars has long been acknowledged.
> Well
> > > over a
> > > > hundred years ago, Roscher documented that the cults of Apollo
> and
> > > Mars were
> > > > fundamentally analogous. Roscher pointed to a host of features
> > > shared in
> > > > common between the two gods, including the following:
> > > > (1) each was associated with the first month of the year;
> > > > (2) each was identified with certain animals and sacred trees;
> > > > (3) each was regarded as a patron of migrations and founder of
> > > cities;
> > > > (4) each was associated with colonizing ventures as exemplified
> by
> > > the Latin
> > > > ver sacrum rite.
> > > > Apollo, like Mars, was invoked as a great warrior to fend off
> the
> > > hostile
> > > > neighbors. An early Greek prayer invokes Apollo as
> follows: "Send a
> > > > far-darting arrow from your bow against the enemy. Strike, O
> > > Paian!"
> > > > Indeed, the Athenian army appears to have been under the direct
> > > patronage of
> > > > Apollo.
> > > > Both gods were associated with the advent and warding off of
> > > pestilence and
> > > > disease. The name Isminthians-signifying that god who sends,
> but
> > > also
> > > > averts, plagues of mice (smintheus is an ancient Cretan word
> meaning
> > > > "mouse")-is one of the Latin god's oldest epithets.
> > > > Yet the very same epithet was applied to Apollo in Asia Minor.
> > > This fact,
> > > > if it does not support the identification of Apollo and Mars, at
> > > least
> > > > supports the view that the two gods were functionally analogous
> in
> > > ancient
> > > > cult. The fact that the cult of Apollo Smintheus has yet to be
> > > found on
> > > > mainland Greece-but only upon the outlying islands of Crete and
> > > Rhodes,
> > > > sites of archaic Greek colonies situated between mainland Greece
> > > and Asia
> > > > Minor-is an indication, perhaps, that Apollo's cult originally
> came
> > > to
> > > > Greece from the ancient Near East.
> > > > An unusual feature of Mars' cult is the war-god's identification
> > > with a
> > > > wolf. This motif is attested very early and, as the epithet
> lupus
> > > Martius
> > > > attests, would appear to be central to the mythology and
> iconography
> > > > surrounding the Latin god.
> > > > As Apollo Lykeios, the ancient Greeks understood Apollo as a
> wolf-
> > > god
> > > > (lykeios is from a Greek stem meaning "wolf"). As the chorus of
> > > Aeschylus'
> > > > Seven attests, Apollo the wolf was conceived as a
> > > warrior: "Lykeios, lord,
> > > > be wolvish toward the enemy's army." Wolves were sacrificed to
> > > Apollo at
> > > > Argos and elsewhere on the Greek peninsula (this in spite of the
> > > fact that
> > > > wolves were extremely rare animals in Greek cult), and in Argive
> > > ritual a
> > > > wolf was pitted in combat against a bull, this latter rite said
> to
> > > symbolize
> > > > Apollo's combat with Poseidon. Although scholars have observed
> that
> > > > Apollo's lupine-characteristics belong to the most archaic
> stage of
> > > his
> > > > cult, an explanation of the significance of Apollo Lykeios has
> not
> > > been
> > > > forthcoming."
> > > > (...)
> > >
> > > I read the article, found it very interesting.
> > >
> > > The idea of a connection with Mars is interesting, since there
> isn't
> > > a good match for Apollo in the Greek pantheon. Mars originally
> was a
> > > protector of fields and herds, a hunting god, and a god of
> > > boundaries at least according to my Roman Religion professor.
> These
> > > match up well with some of Apollo's attributes.
> > >
> > > I want to find details about the shared sacred animals, trees,
> etc.
> > > That's intriguing stuff.
> > >
> > > I would speculate that the wolf attribute might be associated with
> > > the idea of a role as protector and destroyer of herds and
> cattle, as
> > > well as with war and the underworld.
> > >
> > > One thing that occured to me when I read it-They were discussing
> > > the nature of Hyperborean Apollo, an epithet usually used to
> denote a
> > > northern origin of the deity-From the peoples beyond the North
> Wind.
> > >
> > > I thought of a different meaning to this though-In the Pelasgian
> > > Creation Myth, which I was discussing with Glen in a different
> thread,
> > >
> > > The fist being is goddess Eurynome, who starts out alone, dancing
> > > above the waters. She eventually dances, creating Ophion out of
> the
> > > northern wind, a serpent, who coils about her and mates with her.
> > > This impregnates her, so she turns into a dove and lays an egg.
> > > Ophion coils about this egg seven times, and then the universe
> > > emerges from the egg.
> > >
> > > The article mentions that Apollo's favorite number is 7, a rather
> > > unusual Hellenic number. So I propose that this Hyperborean name
> is
> > > referring to Apollo's identification with the primeval male
> > > principle, Ophion.
> > > Apollo has association with serpents, being one and slaying them.
> > > Many of Apollo's attributes identify him with ithyphallic
> fertility
> > > gods appropriate for this serpentine Ophion deity.
> > >
> > > Cort Williams
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
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